Pakistan Navy Chief Desires a Nuclear Submarine to restore Balance of Power in the region

[Joe Shearer]

Problem of Pakistan is that people are confused
They don't know what they want

It seems more like India of 1980s and early 1990s

Good point. Well said.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Problem of Pakistan is that people are confused
They don't know what they want

It seems more like India of 1980s and early 1990s

Good point. Well said.

Problem of Pakistan is that people are confused
They don't know what they want

It seems more like India of 1980s and early 1990s

I have no business, as an outsider, talking about Pakistan's problems and the probable or even possible solutions. Restricting myself to the affairs of my own country has been my guiding principle from the outset, some 14 long years ago. Of course that does not include banter, and some merciless teasing, especially of the fanboys and jingos who infest the forum, but that banter is balanced by the enormous respect I have for those whom I consider the Trinity who define the intellectual capacity of the forum, or the genuine friendly and affectionate regard, even as I disagree mildly or severely, with a very wide assortment of sensible and very balanced people.

So what is this about?

Frankly, this is a turning point for Pakistan. Things have drifted for far too long. There is no longer any room; you are within a few cables-lengths of rocky shores, and are on a leeward drift. You have to act now.

It is in the hands of the Army.

If they do not take action to retire from the civilian stage, they are doomed, and the country is doomed. They have to swallow a bitter pill and accept that what they have done from 1958 onwards has critically harmed the country. They have to stop trying to create puppet parties to rule for limited terms, as they wish them to rule, and to step down when no longer required. That is the key.

The second key is NOT to do what India is doing today, from 2014 onwards, but to do what India did from 1947 to 2014. Pakistan cannot afford blasphemy laws, cannot afford mullahs - at all, not even a single one - cannot afford to tell the Ahmedi that he is not a Muslim, cannot afford to punish Shias, cannot afford to oppress Hindus. Pakistan has to stop doing this. Period.

The third key is to start making things; things that will substitute products that are today being imported, because nobody in the country is making them, and things that can be exported, so that the country is not depend entirely on the blood, sweat and tears of its labouring people dying for their country to put a few dollars back into the homeland.

Your chances are dreadfully low, just as our chances are dreadfully low (for different reasons).

Take your chances now, and do the right things, or be sure that there is no escape from disintegration.

 

[FuturePAF]

Problem of Pakistan is that people are confused
They don't know what they want

It seems more like India of 1980s and early 1990s

When a country’s economy reaches rock bottom, it’s an inflection pout and the best time to reflect and adjust to the governing dynamics of the world.

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2004/wp0443.pdf

Good point. Well said.

I have no business, as an outsider, talking about Pakistan's problems and the probable or even possible solutions. Restricting myself to the affairs of my own country has been my guiding principle from the outset, some 14 long years ago. Of course that does not include banter, and some merciless teasing, especially of the fanboys and jingos who infest the forum, but that banter is balanced by the enormous respect I have for those whom I consider the Trinity who define the intellectual capacity of the forum, or the genuine friendly and affectionate regard, even as I disagree mildly or severely, with a very wide assortment of sensible and very balanced people.

So what is this about?

Frankly, this is a turning point for Pakistan. Things have drifted for far too long. There is no longer any room; you are within a few cables-lengths of rocky shores, and are on a leeward drift. You have to act now.

It is in the hands of the Army.

If they do not take action to retire from the civilian stage, they are doomed, and the country is doomed. They have to swallow a bitter pill and accept that what they have done from 1958 onwards has critically harmed the country. They have to stop trying to create puppet parties to rule for limited terms, as they wish them to rule, and to step down when no longer required. That is the key.

The second key is NOT to do what India is doing today, from 2014 onwards, but to do what India did from 1947 to 2014. Pakistan cannot afford blasphemy laws, cannot afford mullahs - at all, not even a single one - cannot afford to tell the Ahmedi that he is not a Muslim, cannot afford to punish Shias, cannot afford to oppress Hindus. Pakistan has to stop doing this. Period.

The third key is to start making things; things that will substitute products that are today being imported, because nobody in the country is making them, and things that can be exported, so that the country is not depend entirely on the blood, sweat and tears of its labouring people dying for their country to put a few dollars back into the homeland.

Your chances are dreadfully low, just as our chances are dreadfully low (for different reasons).

Take your chances now, and do the right things, or be sure that there is no escape from disintegration.

I agree with most of your post, not to remove religion from the commons but return to a live and let live philosophy (also not the last line , because I doubt disintegration is likely despite all that has occurred), it’s a now or never moment if the current generation of elite (55+ year olds) wants to benefit from reforms. It’s self-evident the nation needs to go back to the light handed governance Jinnah had envision.

What do you mean by:

Your chances are dreadfully low, just as our chances are dreadfully low (for different reasons).

Considering we need to undertake major reforms, if we accept and actually do them, and India is about 30 years further along, why are India’s chances “dreadfully low”? What other bumps are awaiting a country even if it reforms, in your opinion?

 

[vikan]

.

What do you mean by:


Considering we need to undertake major reforms, if we accept and actually do them, and India is about 30 years further along, why are India’s chances “dreadfully low”? What other bumps are awaiting a country even if it reforms, in your opinion?

I dont want to reply for Joe, and i have tried my best to not write this post, but somehow i am compelled to set somethings straight, or atleast offer a different opinion/view on things.

I have noticed on PDF that most of the active Indian posters (will not speak about other nationalities) tend to be on the extremes, or lean close towards them, either to the right or left or anti modi or pro modi. They look at everything with those tinted lenses. I have learned to take their posts with more than a pinch of salt. That said, i dont think situation in India is as wretched/dreadful and Joe paints or as rosy as some others would like to portray.
People's loyalties dictate the content of their posts. I dont find any faults in that, such is the nature of healthy discussions - provide a chance for everyone to display their opinions.
I have seen the extremes of communal hatered and the opposite end of that as well - true meaning of humanity, and everything in between in India over the last few decades. We have seen exponential growth in many areas and some sectors almost regressing back by decades. It is upto us (Indians) to recognize that both ends of the spectrum are coexisting in todays India and address the negatives. Simply bashing one entity (political or economical or technological organizations) is not an accurate portrayal of the ongoing developments in India, neither is blind hero worship some people do.

What i have posted is just my observation and not meant to respond on behalf of Joe or challenge his opinion or anyones for that matter. Take from this what you will, i leave it upto you and others.

 

[SQ8]

Came here for the “Faujeet” comments - not disappointed yet disappointed. Polarized country ripe for dismemberment…

 

[Olympus81]

The Navy Chief should stop dreaming.

Pakistan’s current climate should dictate the military needs to downsize not request for more toys.

Do they not understand simple economics?

 

[SQ8]

The Navy Chief should stop dreaming.

Pakistan’s current climate should dictate the military needs to downsize not request for more toys.

Do they not understand simple economics?

Ever met a person caught in a debt trap but addicted to their hifi lifestyle?

Good point. Well said.

I have no business, as an outsider, talking about Pakistan's problems and the probable or even possible solutions. Restricting myself to the affairs of my own country has been my guiding principle from the outset, some 14 long years ago. Of course that does not include banter, and some merciless teasing, especially of the fanboys and jingos who infest the forum, but that banter is balanced by the enormous respect I have for those whom I consider the Trinity who define the intellectual capacity of the forum, or the genuine friendly and affectionate regard, even as I disagree mildly or severely, with a very wide assortment of sensible and very balanced people.

So what is this about?

Frankly, this is a turning point for Pakistan. Things have drifted for far too long. There is no longer any room; you are within a few cables-lengths of rocky shores, and are on a leeward drift. You have to act now.

It is in the hands of the Army.

If they do not take action to retire from the civilian stage, they are doomed, and the country is doomed. They have to swallow a bitter pill and accept that what they have done from 1958 onwards has critically harmed the country. They have to stop trying to create puppet parties to rule for limited terms, as they wish them to rule, and to step down when no longer required. That is the key.

The second key is NOT to do what India is doing today, from 2014 onwards, but to do what India did from 1947 to 2014. Pakistan cannot afford blasphemy laws, cannot afford mullahs - at all, not even a single one - cannot afford to tell the Ahmedi that he is not a Muslim, cannot afford to punish Shias, cannot afford to oppress Hindus. Pakistan has to stop doing this. Period.

The third key is to start making things; things that will substitute products that are today being imported, because nobody in the country is making them, and things that can be exported, so that the country is not depend entirely on the blood, sweat and tears of its labouring people dying for their country to put a few dollars back into the homeland.

Your chances are dreadfully low, just as our chances are dreadfully low (for different reasons).

Take your chances now, and do the right things, or be sure that there is no escape from disintegration.

For that you need to have a LOT of people who understand that in Pakistan and that simply doesn’t exist. By design, there are stratas of educated society in utter denial even now that their house of cards is crumbling - what other remain are just trying to jump ship or their cortisol levels have crossed so high they are essentially numb and confused.

I would find it analogous to the Soviet union in some ways while in other ways it’s like Enron

 

[Zarvan]

Came here for the “Faujeet” comments - not disappointed yet disappointed. Polarized country ripe for dismemberment…

The way military leadership is acting I can see soon entire KPK picking up arms. Khan is only wall standing between that happening and they are hell bent on making sure that wall falls.

Now as for the topic. Right now, our economy is a disaster. Until that improves nothing won't change. Otherwise, if our military budget would have been at least 25 billion dollars we should have gotten at least three SSBNs.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Easy, do a joint venture with China to build a nuclear submarine.

But our economy needs to be rescued first.

Problem is that most of Pakistani elites study and live in the west.

People need to start sending their children to Chinese institutions, some of which are pretty good also.
Learn Mandarin language since 1.41 billion Chinese speaks in it.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Nuclear submarine is need of the hour. How about a reusable space vehicle like X-37 to park a nuclear warhead in space, having a deterrence patrol?

 

[Azadkashmir]

tell chief to get part time job to pay for nuclear submarine.

 

[nahtanbob]

How much do you think CCP should give Pakistan? Or how much money do you think Pakistan should receive from China? Have you considered the feelings of Chinese taxpayers?

Fair questions
even though I never thought CCP ever cared about anyone's feelings

Easy, do a joint venture with China to build a nuclear submarine.

But our economy needs to be rescued first.

Problem is that most of Pakistani elites study and live in the west.

People need to start sending their children to Chinese institutions, some of which are pretty good also.
Learn Mandarin language since 1.41 billion Chinese speaks in it.

how about showing the way ? from Canada to China

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Fair questions
even though I never thought CCP ever cared about anyone's feelings


how about showing the way ? from Canada to China

Although India can assemble a nuclear submarine. But I don't think there is much difference between India and Pakistan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Since the US has first broken the non-proliferation agreement by creating AUKUS, so China will soon reciprocally sell the nuclear subs to its closest allies; most likely Pakistan and KSA.

 

[Riz]

Would love to see a PN SSBN parked deep somewhere in Indian Ocean firing nuclear tipped cruise missiles on PTI leadership hideouts in KPK and Punjab