Pakistan Maritime Security Agency ( PMSA )

[iLION12345_1]

Absolutely correct on poor naming. But wrong on existence! There shouldn't even be a separate force for the kind of roles that you mentioned. Army can just use its own soldiers for this kind of stuff. Nothing stopping an army soldier from using a boat! And if they really need thay can have a "shore defence unit" or something. But the PCG is a separate force with roles that should be merged with PMSA and the force disbanded!

Below are the PCG roles from their own website! All traditional 'coast guard' jobs except that is supposed to be what PMSA is in pakistan!

Role of Pakistan Coast Guards​

As per PCG Act 1973, mandate of this Force is defined as “Whereas it is expedient to provide for the constitution and regulation of PCG and for special measures to effectively check smuggling of any kind across the frontiers of Pakistan in the Coastal Area of Arabian Sea and also to deal with persons acting in a manner prejudicial to the defence and security of Pakistan in that areaâ€.

• Functions. Main functions of PCG under 1973 Act are:-
  
  • Prevention of smuggling
  • Prevention of illegal immigration to and migration from the Country.
  • Stopping enemy agents or saboteurs from infiltrating into the Country along the Coastal Areas.
  • Supplementing defence during war.
• Legal Powers. In order to accomplish the assigned tasks in a befitting manner, certain legal powers have been vested to PCG under various Acts.
  
  • Police Act – 1861. Under this act, all Officers and Junior Commissioned Officers are vested with Police powers; however it is only applicable outside the jurisdiction of Seaports and Airports since they have dedicated agencies for the purpose. The details are:-
    
    • Every post serves as a police station.
    • Every Officer and Junior Commissioned Officer possesses powers of Station House Officer (SHO) and can:-
      
      • Record FIR and carry out investigation.
      • Present challan in relevant courts of law.
  • Control of Narcotics Substance (CNS) Act – 1997. Under CNS Act, Officers and Junior Commissioned Officers are authorized to exercise powers to:-
    
    • Carryout seizure and arrest in public places.
    • Stop and search public / private transport.
    • Trace and freeze assets, when required.
  • Customs Act – 1969. PCG has been vested with anti smuggling powers to check illegal smuggling of goods. Under this Act, PCG is authorize to check smuggling of contraband items.

Compare to the Operations part on PMSA website homepage,

PMSA conduct Search and Rescue (SAR), Marine Pollution Control, Anti-Poaching, Anti-Smuggling and Drug Trafficking operations with regular patrolling and surveillance of Pakistan EEZ.

They have some other functions also but essentially there is overlapping wit PCG. Even in the area of responsibility. PCG is limited to 12NM from shore. But this areas is included in PMSA AoR also as on their website.

PMSA’s area of responsibility extends from coastline to seaward and covers all maritime zones of Pakistan. These include:
Territorial waters	12 NM
Contiguous zone	24 NM
Exclusive Economic Zone	200 NM
Extended Continental shelf	350 NM

This area is roughly 290,000 Sq Km. In addition to this, PMSA is also responsible for Search and Rescue in a large area assigned by International Maritime Organization (IMO). This area extends up to 840 NM from the coast.

What I said was just an example of why an army might need a water-faring capability, not that they were the exact roles of the PCG. There is overlap sure, but it’s not that big, PMSA has much bigger responsibilities than the PCG including related to COIN, piracy, SAR, fisheries, environmental protection and border enforcement, whereas PCG is limited to policing and smuggling, but let’s break it down further by seeing where both forces are deployed.

PCG is active near the shores of Gwadar and Karachi, however they are not really as responsible for the rest of the coastline, the PMSA covers that, and despite obviously having an AOR within 12NM, they are not seen doing as much inside it as the PCG. OTOH the PCG is deployed in the swamps and marshes of the Sind region along with the Indian border, where I think the PMSA is not. The PMSA also does not really conduct land based raids and ops, something that the PCG does. To me what it breaks down to is the fact that the army wants its own arm to cover the waterways and shore areas in regions where there is also an army presence on the ground, i.e the international border with India, the special security regiments in gwadar etc.

If you look at most news related to drug and smuggling ops. PMSA seems to catch them further into the sea, whereas PCG does the same but usually nearer to shore, which makes sense given their capabilities.

There is most definitely an overlap in their roles and tasks still, but the way I see it, the army wants water-borne capabilities in the case a war starts, partially because yes, the army does like to have a certain control over everything, partially because the PN historically has been sort of a token force which may have caused the army to consider needing its own naval arm to control borders during a war, and partially because it actually does make sense for them to have one, given their sort of overreaching responsibilities in regards to the countries defense, wether it be due to a bad reason or a good one. Until a war does start, they likely justify the existence of the PCG by taking some work off the PMSA and doing its duties within that 12NM region, while also securing army bases near waterways as sort of a secondary role.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Hi, by your description it looks like Pakistan Coast guard is a service to defend Army coastal bases. Not sure, how many Army bases are at the coastal areas. But even if there are many those can be defended by Army's regular branches. Why to raise a special branch for it ?

Secondly, we hear about Pakistan Coast Guards only in the news when they catch up some million dollars whiskeys or drugs or smuggling items. This task and even protection of coastal installations like ports etc should be Navy's job. Navy too have seals and ground force. Organizationally this is too much overlapping.

If wikipedia has correct info then Pakistan Coast guard has below assets:

10 fast patrol vessels
50 patrol boats
25 patrol craft
18 hovercraft

and about 15,000 men.

If true, that's quite a big force.

So we have patrol crafts and boats for both Navy & Army active at coast & shallow waters. The perception that Army wants its control on everything and especially the control over the items being smuggled in/out, which kind of items to be allowed, which to be siezed, which to be destroyed, that's a big avenue understandably.



Pakistan Coast guard has sizeable fleet of patrol crafts & patrol boats / hovercrafts. That's why there is a genuine concern that why Navy & Army are overlapping in this domain.

Firstly Wikipedia is a terrible source for anything related to military assets, those are not accurate at all. The only major hovercrafts with any service in Pakistan are the Pakistan marines, what is the difference between a patrol boat, a patrol craft and a fast patrol boat as opposed to the normal one? The PCG does not operate any major naval vessels.

Again, it’s a branch of the army, so it’s personnel count is rather irrelevant because it can be absorbed and expanded from within army ranks at any time, the same goes for its budget. Keep in mind that the PN and PMSA have only expanded to be capable forces extremely recently, for the last 30 odd years, they were rather small.

Here it’s very important to remember that the PCG has existed since 1972, a time where the PMSA was still over two decades off existing and the PN was devastated after the 71 war. For the next 20 years, it was solely responsible for all the tasks for the PMSA and more, so if anything it’s the PMSA that came much later in 1987 (was not actually functional until 1994) and took over the roles, so you can guess why the force that was over 20 years older and much established in these tasks not abolished (the PCG was actually key in training and forming the PMSA in some regards)/



Lastly, I’m a little tired of all the conspiracies that people keep coming up with, somehow finding a negative connotation to everything the army does or doesn’t, because of the recent events. There wasn’t such unwarranted suspicion before, if anything people vehemently defended them. I get they’ve ruined their image with some stupid mistakes, but I’m sure this is not what they were thinking in 1973.

 

[Super Falcon]

Most armies have a “naval” (not the correct term to use, more correct would be water traversing capabilities) branch. PA is not unique in this regard. Ours is just named poorly.

Picture this scenario: there’s an army base on the coast, and they need to guard the side of their base which borders the sea, this base might be there for AD purposes, for protection of other local installations like at CPEC etc, it makes more sense to have a small water component than call the navy or the PMSA. The PCG doesn’t operate ships, just smaller boats. It’s existence makes sense, it’s name doesn’t.

Sir pak coastal lines are under the protection of navy in our constitution it's their responsibility not army army responsibility is to guard pak land not coastal lines and they are not trainers for it if they need support navy will provide them under their coastal line jurisdiction today coast guard guys doing duties on highway checking which is not their Portfolio they are doing this job because they are not needed by navy and creating miss understanding who is the boss so better MSA given their job and coast guard should be disabled we have to many unnecessary forces budget cuts will help with these unnecessary forces

 

[iLION12345_1]

Sir pak coastal lines are under the protection of navy in our constitution it's their responsibility not army army responsibility is to guard pak land not coastal lines and they are not trainers for it if they need support navy will provide them under their coastal line jurisdiction today coast guard guys doing duties on highway checking which is not their Portfolio they are doing this job because they are not needed by navy and creating miss understanding who is the boss so better MSA given their job and coast guard should be disabled we have to many unnecessary forces budget cuts will help with these unnecessary forces

did you even read what I said….

 

[ghazi52]

,.,.,.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633002908324098049

 

[syed_yusuf]

Absolutely correct on poor naming. But wrong on existence! There shouldn't even be a separate force for the kind of roles that you mentioned. Army can just use its own soldiers for this kind of stuff. Nothing stopping an army soldier from using a boat! And if they really need then they can have a "shore defence unit" or something within the army. But the PCG is a separate force with roles that should be merged with PMSA and the force disbanded!

Below are the PCG roles from their own website! All traditional 'coast guard' jobs in other countries except that is supposed to be what PMSA is in pakistan!

Role of Pakistan Coast Guards​

As per PCG Act 1973, mandate of this Force is defined as “Whereas it is expedient to provide for the constitution and regulation of PCG and for special measures to effectively check smuggling of any kind across the frontiers of Pakistan in the Coastal Area of Arabian Sea and also to deal with persons acting in a manner prejudicial to the defence and security of Pakistan in that areaâ€.

• Functions. Main functions of PCG under 1973 Act are:-
  
  • Prevention of smuggling
  • Prevention of illegal immigration to and migration from the Country.
  • Stopping enemy agents or saboteurs from infiltrating into the Country along the Coastal Areas.
  • Supplementing defence during war.
• Legal Powers. In order to accomplish the assigned tasks in a befitting manner, certain legal powers have been vested to PCG under various Acts.
  
  • Police Act – 1861. Under this act, all Officers and Junior Commissioned Officers are vested with Police powers; however it is only applicable outside the jurisdiction of Seaports and Airports since they have dedicated agencies for the purpose. The details are:-
    
    • Every post serves as a police station.
    • Every Officer and Junior Commissioned Officer possesses powers of Station House Officer (SHO) and can:-
      
      • Record FIR and carry out investigation.
      • Present challan in relevant courts of law.
  • Control of Narcotics Substance (CNS) Act – 1997. Under CNS Act, Officers and Junior Commissioned Officers are authorized to exercise powers to:-
    
    • Carryout seizure and arrest in public places.
    • Stop and search public / private transport.
    • Trace and freeze assets, when required.
  • Customs Act – 1969. PCG has been vested with anti smuggling powers to check illegal smuggling of goods. Under this Act, PCG is authorize to check smuggling of contraband items.

Compare this to the Operations part on PMSA website homepage,


PMSA conduct Search and Rescue (SAR), Marine Pollution Control, Anti-Poaching, Anti-Smuggling and Drug Trafficking operations with regular patrolling and surveillance of Pakistan EEZ.

They do have some other functions also but essentially there is overlapping with PCG. Even in the area of responsibility. PCG is limited to 12NM from shore. But this areas is included in PMSA AoR also as on their website (as below), so why not let PMSA handle the whole thing? Having two forces is wasteful.

PMSA’s area of responsibility extends from coastline to seaward and covers all maritime zones of Pakistan. These include:
Territorial waters	12 NM
Contiguous zone	24 NM
Exclusive Economic Zone	200 NM
Extended Continental shelf	350 NM

This area is roughly 290,000 Sq Km. In addition to this, PMSA is also responsible for Search and Rescue in a large area assigned by International Maritime Organization (IMO). This area extends up to 840 NM from the coast.

if PMSA is doing all this then we do PN needs to add OPV to its category?

 

[iLION12345_1]

if PMSA is doing all this then we do PN needs to add OPV to its category?

Major difference there. PNs OPVs are classified as warships on account of the armaments on them. PMSAs ships do not carry such weaponry, there are different sea rules and legalities for something considered a warship and something considered a coast guard or policing vessel. The navy cannot use its OPVs the same way PMSA can. However PMSAs larger vessels like the Kashmir class are combat capable, in times of war they can be equipped with SAMS and ASHMs to fight alongside the navy.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Firstly Wikipedia is a terrible source for anything related to military assets, those are not accurate at all. The only major hovercrafts with any service in Pakistan are the Pakistan marines, what is the difference between a patrol boat, a patrol craft and a fast patrol boat as opposed to the normal one? The PCG does not operate any major naval vessels.

Again, it’s a branch of the army, so it’s personnel count is rather irrelevant because it can be absorbed and expanded from within army ranks at any time, the same goes for its budget. Keep in mind that the PN and PMSA have only expanded to be capable forces extremely recently, for the last 30 odd years, they were rather small.

Here it’s very important to remember that the PCG has existed since 1972, a time where the PMSA was still over two decades off existing and the PN was devastated after the 71 war. For the next 20 years, it was solely responsible for all the tasks for the PMSA and more, so if anything it’s the PMSA that came much later in 1987 (was not actually functional until 1994) and took over the roles, so you can guess why the force that was over 20 years older and much established in these tasks not abolished (the PCG was actually key in training and forming the PMSA in some regards)/



Lastly, I’m a little tired of all the conspiracies that people keep coming up with, somehow finding a negative connotation to everything the army does or doesn’t, because of the recent events. There wasn’t such unwarranted suspicion before, if anything people vehemently defended them. I get they’ve ruined their image with some stupid mistakes, but I’m sure this is not what they were thinking in 1973.

Good to know counter arguments. I agree and I am sure they'd not be thinking to have full control & redundancy when they were creating the force in 1973. The navy was almost non-existent by then, all sort of protection was required. Security & enforcement would be their main goals to create the force. However now when Navy got quite bigger and it created its own branch of PMSA then there's a lot of overlapping. We hear news of these both forces catching smuggling items. The strive for optimal management should never end. The overlapping should be eliminated. Single chain of command is always without ambiguities, without overlaps and quicker to enforce.

The Kashmir class was designed with the capability to carry Proper AShMs and other weaponry. The mounts are already present and wired. It’s quite a large vessel after all (1500 tons).

They can’t equip it during peacetime as then the ship is declared a warship legally, However during a war it would be transferred to the navy and used as a proper corvette, it has the radars and other subsystems as well as a helipad and a hanger.

Yep, I read somewhere too that these Kashmir class were designed to be used as missile corvettes if required. However, I don't see the mounts from latest satellite imagery. Maybe the mounts aren't that clear in these images:

Nevertheless, the ships definitely has enough room for Ashms, even has enough room for short point defense etc. My only concern, is how quickly these can be converted or if points are mounted then how quickly the missile launchers can be installed. Not sure if Navy does such drills. But there should be surprise drills where crew is tasked to get ready & deploy with full gear in shortest time.

We know Airforce has ADA units in every operational base that are fueled and armed and ready to scramble. Is there anything that equivalent in Navy? Frigates definitely would take a long time before all the crew is embarked and ship is undocked. A surprise cruise missile attack can be devastating.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Good to know counter arguments. I agree and I am sure they'd not be thinking to have full control & redundancy when they were creating the force in 1973. The navy was almost non-existent by then, all sort of protection was required. Security & enforcement would be their main goals to create the force. However now when Navy got quite bigger and it created its own branch of PMSA then there's a lot of overlapping. We hear news of these both forces catching smuggling items. The strive for optimal management should never end. The overlapping should be eliminated. Single chain of command is always without ambiguities, without overlaps and quicker to enforce.



Yep, I read somewhere too that these Kashmir class were designed to be used as missile corvettes if required. However, I don't see the mounts from latest satellite imagery. Maybe the mounts aren't that clear in these images:

View attachment 919338


Nevertheless, the ships definitely has enough room for Ashms, even has enough room for short point defense etc. My only concern, is how quickly these can be converted or if points are mounted then how quickly the missile launchers can be installed. Not sure if Navy does such drills. But there should be surprise drills where crew is tasked to get ready & deploy with full gear in shortest time.

We know Airforce has ADA units in every operational base that are fueled and armed and ready to scramble. Is there anything that equivalent in Navy? Frigates definitely would take a long time before all the crew is embarked and ship is undocked. A surprise cruise missile attack can be devastating.

It works a little differently in the navy in regards to defense alerts. Firstly, the Navy has ADAs too. Their eyes and ears are their MPAs in that regard, PN has a large fleet and it’s expanding more with the Sea Sultans now. They are always patrolling the region and borders to make sure there are no incursions, hence the frequent encounters with Indian submarines, secondly, they have listening stations underwater and as well as submarines constantly patrolling the waters. It would be very hard to do a surprise attack on a naval installment these days unless long range cruise missiles are involved.

Ships are also used as active patrolling vessels, (the PMSA is more responsible for this than the PN, hence the large vessels in the PMSA), but you can guess that they’re rather obvious so will not be hard to avoid if an enemy is trying to enter your territory silently, hence planes and submarines are the primary platforms there. Most ships In dock are not active, and hence will not be scrambling to respond to an incursion, however much like the Air Force, there is always a number of ships, planes, jets and submarines that are active, with their crew on stand by, and yes they do practice drills to ensure fast response just as commonly as the Air Force. Here it is important to remember that in the case of a war, even in the sea, the navy is usually not the first to respond to a threat, it’s the Air Force, since our navy doesn’t have its own jets, the PAFs anti shipping squadrons will be the first responders to most naval threats, since of course jets are faster than ships. However the first responders to submarine incursions will always be MPAs as jets don’t have that capability. (Sea sultans will considerably increase PNs anti submarine response capability and reduce response time)

 

[Super Falcon]

did you even read what I said….

Yes

 

[farooqbhai007]

Good to know counter arguments. I agree and I am sure they'd not be thinking to have full control & redundancy when they were creating the force in 1973. The navy was almost non-existent by then, all sort of protection was required. Security & enforcement would be their main goals to create the force. However now when Navy got quite bigger and it created its own branch of PMSA then there's a lot of overlapping. We hear news of these both forces catching smuggling items. The strive for optimal management should never end. The overlapping should be eliminated. Single chain of command is always without ambiguities, without overlaps and quicker to enforce.



Yep, I read somewhere too that these Kashmir class were designed to be used as missile corvettes if required. However, I don't see the mounts from latest satellite imagery. Maybe the mounts aren't that clear in these images:

View attachment 919338


Nevertheless, the ships definitely has enough room for Ashms, even has enough room for short point defense etc. My only concern, is how quickly these can be converted or if points are mounted then how quickly the missile launchers can be installed. Not sure if Navy does such drills. But there should be surprise drills where crew is tasked to get ready & deploy with full gear in shortest time.

We know Airforce has ADA units in every operational base that are fueled and armed and ready to scramble. Is there anything that equivalent in Navy? Frigates definitely would take a long time before all the crew is embarked and ship is undocked. A surprise cruise missile attack can be devastating.

I think a better way to sum it up is that PMSA covers only sea based mid to long range patrols of the coast, while PCG covers short range patrols of pakistani coast as well as conducts land based ops to aid sea based assets including setting up land checkpoints etc. Even when coming into Karachi city from sindh side there are PCG road Checkpoints at certain locations.

 

[ghazi52]

PMSS Kashmir..

 

[ghazi52]

,.,..,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1623685451067322369

 

[Zephyrus]

3 x Hingol class Patrol Vessels, PMSA

 

[ghazi52]

.,,.,.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1636351078194384896