Pakistan Leads South Asia in Innovation Efficiency

[Hutchroy]

Foxbat , great come on, you are feeding a troll. He is changing topic first innovation then coolie. That guy do not even know that Indian IT is not BPO driven. He never replied to my post, same thing does in other threads. He is just frustrated about Indias progress and wants to show Pakistan is better.

Mr. Riaz Haq will never answer when cornered.

He stated :

It's your home work to find out the number of jobs in each category rather than just the revenue.

BPO is the home of the ultra cheap cyber coolies while India's IT shops are just body shops supplying cheap code coolies for outsourced IT services rather than any real original sw products.

My Question :

So why is Pakistan IT Industry expecting the Indian IT Companies to help Pakistan in BPO and IT as per the following Article :

Relations with India

Half a million Indians working in California’s Silicon Valley have helped India's software companies grow and break into the US and world markets. The Indians on Wall Street have helped put their home country’s venture capital industry on a sound footing. By contrast, Pakistani industrialists and researchers, alike, have to prove they are not terrorists before they can enter America. Access to technology remains a distant cry.

A pact of peace and friendship with India will give us access to Bangalore’s technology.

I agree that Pakistan is better in Innovation, Richer in Economy, Higher in Per Capita Income, A Great Leader in the Field of IT etc. etc. but I cannot understand why Pakistan should ask all countries and now even India for Money, Investment and Help as per the following Article :

Neighbour’s peeve

The world’s most wanted man gets bumped off on their soil. Suicide bombings are the order of the day. Chaos and Pakistan seem like twin brothers. The bruising bond is getting deeper, worrying the world and neighbours like India. And it is bugging young Pakistanis, especially those in cities like Karachi and Lahore, no end.

“Agreed, we face innumerable problems, but who doesn’t? We know how to manage ourselves,” says Ayub Sheikh, a 25-year-old software engineer in Lahore. There is a simmering anger among many young Pakistanis over how their country is being treated, especially at a time when they need support. And India, they say, is adding fuel to fire. “Especially Indian politicians and the media. We are just like you. What makes you target us this way and project us in a negative way to the world? You are our big neighbour. There may be differences of opinion but we have always looked at you as a source of strength,” fumes Duma Malik Gaul, a college student in Peshawar.

Many Pakistanis want to forget the Osama episode and move on. They want the international community, especially India, to not get too analytical over Pakistan’s internal affairs. “We are an inward-looking society, and we understand ourselves best. Our own culture and mindset are unique and there are plenty of opportunities for motivated and positive people in our country,” says Uzma Rasikh, a management consultant in Karachi.

On May 26, at the India-US homeland security meet in Delhi, Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram called Pakistan the global epicentre of terrorism and also said India was located in the most dangerous part of the world because of all that was happening in Pakistan. “This news was published prominently worldwide. Don’t terrorist attacks happen in India? We do agree it’s more on our side. What is important is finding a solution together, rather than the blame game,” says Sheikh Rahman, a Pakistani settled in New York. According to him, such statements affect the image of his country. “It’s already taken a beating. No foreigner wants to visit our country.”

There is a growing concern among the youth that Pakistan might go the Afghanistan and Iraq way, if the lawmakers and the army do not act wisely. “But we have complete faith in Allah, and we are sure He will show us a way,” says Hameed Khan, a banker in Lahore. “India should help us to come out of this deadlock rather than accusing us. We need the support of an elder brother. We need money. We need investment.”

Javed Abdullah, a school teacher in Multan, says there is no point competing with India. “We can’t reach anywhere near India. But we should be at least allowed to become the number two in the region,” he says. His cousin and fiancee, Rajuba, who is settled in the US, says she has stopped watching Bollywood movies even though she loves them so very much. “I don’t feel like seeing or talking on anything to do with India, though I have a few close Indian friends who mean the world to me. You have projected us as a deadly country filled with terror and terrorists. Come to Karachi or Lahore, it’s no different from Delhi or Mumbai. The perception among Indians is that in Pakistan it’s all backwardness and orthodoxy clubbed with terror,” she says.

"indianrabbit" I hope that Mr. Riaz Haq can convey to Mr. Hameed Khan, a banker in Lahore the reality of India i.e. Huge Foreign Debt, Lack of Foreign Exchange, No Foreign Investment, No Innovation, No Money, No Toilets etc. etc. and as such Mr. Khan should not consider India as an elder brother as well as beg for Indian support with Indian Money and Indian Investment.

 

[Hutchroy]

Decadence of the Muslim world —Anwar Syed

Muslims seem to have been content with their existing station in life. Possessed of passivity, they have been wanting in ambition and drive to attain higher levels of productivity and prosperity. Advancement in the pursuit of knowledge requires hard work, which they have not been willing to undertake

There was a time when the ordinary individual’s right to know was not acknowledged. It is said of Naushirwan the Just that he was once out on a military campaign, the end of the month approached and the soldiers had to be paid their salaries, but the treasurer with bags of money had not yet arrived from the capital. He sent one of his ministers to a nearby town to see if someone would lend the king the money he needed for a few days. The minister found a wealthy blacksmith who manufactured weapons and made a lot of money. He was willing to lend the king the money in return for a consideration, which was that his son should be allowed to enrol in a school to get education. The king declined this condition, saying that learning had to remain the preserve of the ruling classes. That was a long time ago. Earlier this year a landlord’s employee in Multan beseeched a friend of mine to enrol his son in a school in Lahore because his employer did not want the children of his servants to get education. He would rather that they stayed ignorant and, like their fathers and grandfathers, worked on his farm as serfs. This landlord was not the only one of his kind. Countless large landowners in Pakistan think the same way. The great majority of the people of Pakistan are at best semi-literate.

It is true that during the medieval ages Muslims made great advances in the study of medicine, physical and biological sciences, history and sociology. Their works reached the Europeans through translations. They advanced the frontiers of knowledge that existed at that time. They questioned conventional wisdom, made new discoveries and got new answers. Then came the theologians, notably Imam Ghazali, who taught that no further questions needed to be raised because enough had been asked and answered. Knowledge in the Muslim lands froze rigid. Conformity (taqleed), instead of innovation, became the rule. This remained the case for several hundred years and became a habit of the Muslim mind and it continues to be the same way even today.

Dr Attaur Rehman, a renowned scientist and founder of the Higher Education Commission (HEC) in Pakistan, stated recently in a television interview that there were some 500 universities in the Muslim world whereas India alone had more than 7,000 of them. He added that Muslim scholars published about 500 research-based articles in professional journals in a year while Japan produced more than 10 times as many. Only seven Muslims have received the Nobel Prize in their respective fields of specialisation. There are less than 10 million Jews in the entire world and more than 100 of them have been awarded the same prize. Pakistan, he pointed out, allocated 4 percent of its GDP but actually spent less than 2 percent of it on education. Turkey is an exception to this general trend. It has made enormous progress in the areas of manufacturing and commerce. It operates a knowledge-based economy. It should be noted that while an Islamic party has been in power in this country for several years, its military, bureaucratic, and commercial elite have been secular-minded for the most part since Kemal Ataturk’s revolution in the 1920s. Malaysia is another exception whose government has been allocating 25 percent of its budget to education.

How may we then explain the Muslim people’s disinclination to pursue knowledge? Imam Ghazali’s halt to further investigation related only to scriptural knowledge. It is however possible that subsequent scholarship extended his scepticism to other disciplines, and knowledge in the Muslim world became stagnant. Another influence may be noted. The ulema (Islamic scholars) have traditionally taught that all that is worth knowing has already been stated in the Quran and Sunnah, and whatever has not been covered in these sources is not worth knowing. Furthermore, Muslims seem to have been content with their existing station in life. Possessed of passivity, they have been wanting in ambition and drive to attain higher levels of productivity and prosperity. Advancement in the pursuit of knowledge requires hard work, which they have not been willing to undertake. Moreover, the mullah has been preaching that the existing state of affairs is what it is because God has so willed.

In Pakistan, absolutism in governance has declined to a degree but it has not disappeared entirely. A reasonably fair election was held in February 2008 and a parliament and a government of elected representatives are in place. That this government is not honest and competent enough to be relied upon is a different matter. The media is free and vocal as are the other organs of civil society. The higher judiciary is both honest and competent. Public order and tranquillity have broken down and terrorism has become pervasive. Beyond all these adversities there is the fact that education in Pakistan, as in the rest of the Muslim world, is in a very bad state. Standards of attainment in higher education have fallen precipitously, and the situation is not any better at the lower levels. Teacher salaries are low and dedication to duty is hard to find. The infrastructure is in ruins. It is not uncommon to find teachers and students sitting under trees or the open sky because they do not have a school building. Strangely enough, one may find places where there is a school building but no students because the local landed aristocrats are using the structure as a warehouse and as a barn for their cattle. The elected representatives of the people in parliament and the executive branch are not making any visible effort to clean up this mess.

I see no signs of a movement in the Muslim world, apart from the couple of exceptions already noted, to spread knowledge to the generality of its people, encourage them to be inquisitive and appropriately sceptical of conventional wisdom, take hold of modern science and technology, become innovative and inventive, and join the ranks of the developed world.

The writer, professor emeritus at the University of Massachusetts, is a visiting professor at the Lahore School of Economics. He can be reached at anwarsyed@cox.net

 

[RiazHaq]

Decadence of the Muslim world —Anwar Syed

Muslims seem to have been content with their existing station in life. Possessed of passivity, they have been wanting in ambition and drive to attain higher levels of productivity and prosperity. Advancement in the pursuit of knowledge requires hard work, which they have not been willing to undertake

There was a time when the ordinary individual’s right to know was not acknowledged. It is said of Naushirwan the Just that he was once out on a military campaign, the end of the month approached and the soldiers had to be paid their salaries, but the treasurer with bags of money had not yet arrived from the capital. He sent one of his ministers to a nearby town to see if someone would lend the king the money he needed for a few days. The minister found a wealthy blacksmith who manufactured weapons and made a lot of money. He was willing to lend the king the money in return for a consideration, which was that his son should be allowed to enrol in a school to get education. The king declined this condition, saying that learning had to remain the preserve of the ruling classes. That was a long time ago. Earlier this year a landlord’s employee in Multan beseeched a friend of mine to enrol his son in a school in Lahore because his employer did not want the children of his servants to get education. He would rather that they stayed ignorant and, like their fathers and grandfathers, worked on his farm as serfs. This landlord was not the only one of his kind. Countless large landowners in Pakistan think the same way. The great majority of the people of Pakistan are at best semi-literate.

It is true that during the medieval ages Muslims made great advances in the study of medicine, physical and biological sciences, history and sociology. Their works reached the Europeans through translations. They advanced the frontiers of knowledge that existed at that time. They questioned conventional wisdom, made new discoveries and got new answers. Then came the theologians, notably Imam Ghazali, who taught that no further questions needed to be raised because enough had been asked and answered. Knowledge in the Muslim lands froze rigid. Conformity (taqleed), instead of innovation, became the rule. This remained the case for several hundred years and became a habit of the Muslim mind and it continues to be the same way even today.

Op Eds are not a substitute for real data from credible sources which say the following:

Sixty years after independence, "Shining" India is still home to the world's largest population of poor, hungry, illiterate and sick people.


On the list of 15 poorest countries in the world, India is ranked #14.

Haq's Musings: 63 Years After Independence, India Remains Home to World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates

Hunger Facts
1.

Hunger remains the No.1 cause of death in the world. Aids, Cancer etc. follow.
2.

There are 820 million chronically hungry people in the world.
3.

1/3rd of the worldÂ’s hungry live in India.
4.

836 million Indians survive on less than Rs. 20 (less than half-a-dollar) a day.
5.

Over 20 crore Indians will sleep hungry tonight.
6.

10 million people die every year of chronic hunger and hunger-related diseases. Only eight percent are the victims of hunger caused by high-profile earthquakes, floods, droughts and wars.
7.

India has 212 million undernourished people – only marginally below the 215 million estimated for 1990–92.
8.

99% of the 1000 Adivasi households from 40 villages in the two states, who comprised the total sample, experienced chronic hunger (unable to get two square meals, or at least one square meal and one poor/partial meal, on even one day in the week prior to the survey). Almost as many (24.1 per cent) had lived in conditions of semi-starvation during the previous month.
9.

Over 7000 Indians die of hunger every day.
10.

Over 25 lakh Indians die of hunger every year.
11.

Despite substantial improvement in health since independence and a growth rate of 8 percent in recent years, under-nutrition remains a silent emergency in India, with almost 50 percent of Indian children underweight and more than 70 percent of the women and children with serious nutritional deficiencies as anemia.
12.

The 1998 – 99 Indian survey shows 57 percent of the children aged 0 – 3 years to be either severely or moderately stunted and/or underweight.
13.

During 2006 – 2007, malnutrition contributed to seven million Indian children dying, nearly two million before the age of one.
14.

30% of newborn are of low birth weight, 56% of married women are anaemic and 79% of children age 6-35 months are anaemic.
15.

The number of hungry people in India is always more than the number of people below official poverty line (while around 37% of rural households were below the poverty line in 1993-94, 80% of households suffered under nutrition).
Sources :
UN World Food Programme
UN World Health Organization: Global Database on Child Growth and Malnutrition, 2006
UN Food and Agriculture Organization: SOFI 2006 Report
National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganized Sector (India)
National Family Health Survey 2005 – 06 (NFHS-3) (India)
Centre for Environment and Food Security (India)
Rural 21 (India)

Hunger Facts | The Hunger Site for Facts: Bhookh.com

 

[Hutchroy]

Op Eds are not a substitute for real data from credible sources which say the following:

Sixty years after independence, "Shining" India is still home to the world's largest population of poor, hungry, illiterate and sick people.


On the list of 15 poorest countries in the world, India is ranked #14.

Haq's Musings: 63 Years After Independence, India Remains Home to World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates

Hunger Facts
1.

Hunger remains the No.1 cause of death in the world. Aids, Cancer etc. follow.
2.

There are 820 million chronically hungry people in the world.
3.

1/3rd of the world’s hungry live in India.
4.

836 million Indians survive on less than Rs. 20 (less than half-a-dollar) a day.
5.

Over 20 crore Indians will sleep hungry tonight.
6.

10 million people die every year of chronic hunger and hunger-related diseases. Only eight percent are the victims of hunger caused by high-profile earthquakes, floods, droughts and wars.
7.

India has 212 million undernourished people – only marginally below the 215 million estimated for 1990–92.
8.

99% of the 1000 Adivasi households from 40 villages in the two states, who comprised the total sample, experienced chronic hunger (unable to get two square meals, or at least one square meal and one poor/partial meal, on even one day in the week prior to the survey). Almost as many (24.1 per cent) had lived in conditions of semi-starvation during the previous month.
9.

Over 7000 Indians die of hunger every day.
10.

Over 25 lakh Indians die of hunger every year.
11.

Despite substantial improvement in health since independence and a growth rate of 8 percent in recent years, under-nutrition remains a silent emergency in India, with almost 50 percent of Indian children underweight and more than 70 percent of the women and children with serious nutritional deficiencies as anemia.
12.

The 1998 – 99 Indian survey shows 57 percent of the children aged 0 – 3 years to be either severely or moderately stunted and/or underweight.
13.

During 2006 – 2007, malnutrition contributed to seven million Indian children dying, nearly two million before the age of one.
14.

30% of newborn are of low birth weight, 56% of married women are anaemic and 79% of children age 6-35 months are anaemic.
15.

The number of hungry people in India is always more than the number of people below official poverty line (while around 37% of rural households were below the poverty line in 1993-94, 80% of households suffered under nutrition).
Sources :
UN World Food Programme
UN World Health Organization: Global Database on Child Growth and Malnutrition, 2006
UN Food and Agriculture Organization: SOFI 2006 Report
National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganized Sector (India)
National Family Health Survey 2005 – 06 (NFHS-3) (India)
Centre for Environment and Food Security (India)
Rural 21 (India)

Hunger Facts | The Hunger Site for Facts: Bhookh.com

Mr. Riaz Haq : However, the Indian Government is not Begging All and Sundry for a US Dollar 100 Billion Marshal Plan or the WB or IMF or China or EU or even Pakistan for "Help" in Terms of Money, Investment etc.

Over 2 U

 

[RiazHaq]

Mr. Riaz Haq : However, the Indian Government is not Begging All and Sundry for a US Dollar 100 Billion Marshal Plan or the WB or IMF or China or EU or even Pakistan for "Help" in Terms of Money, Investment etc.

Over 2 U

As the pompous Indian rulers (and their boastful middle class members like you) beat their chest while millions of Indians go hungry, all the pretenses of "Shining India" can not hide their utter callousness and total disregard for the lives of millions of poor and hungry Indians and their severely malnourished offsprings.

In 2009, the Indian government banned the import of Plumpy'Nut nutrient bar by UNICEF to treat moderate to severe acute malnutrition among Indian children. Defending the government action, Mr. Shreeranjan, the joint secretary of the Ministry of Women and Child Development, told the Reuters that "Nothing should come behind our back. Nothing should be done in the name of emergency when we have not declared an emergency."

Clearly, Mr. Shreeranjan and the Indian government do not see the food emergency that is causing almost half of India's children to be malnourished. According to UNICEF's State of the World's Children's report carried by the BBC, India has the worst indicators of child malnutrition in South Asia: 48% of under fives in India are stunted, compared to 43% in Bangladesh and 37% in Pakistan.

Meanwhile 30% of babies in India are born underweight, compared to 22% in Bangladesh and 19% in Pakistan. UNICEF calculates that 40% of all underweight babies in the world are Indian.

Haq's Musings: Malnutrition Challenge in India, Pakistan

 

[Hutchroy]

As the pompous Indian rulers (and their boastful middle class members like you) beat their chest while millions of Indians go hungry, all the pretenses of "Shining India" can not hide their utter callousness and total disregard for the lives of millions of poor and hungry Indians and their severely malnourished offsprings.

In 2009, the Indian government banned the import of Plumpy'Nut nutrient bar by UNICEF to treat moderate to severe acute malnutrition among Indian children. Defending the government action, Mr. Shreeranjan, the joint secretary of the Ministry of Women and Child Development, told the Reuters that "Nothing should come behind our back. Nothing should be done in the name of emergency when we have not declared an emergency."

Clearly, Mr. Shreeranjan and the Indian government do not see the food emergency that is causing almost half of India's children to be malnourished. According to UNICEF's State of the World's Children's report carried by the BBC, India has the worst indicators of child malnutrition in South Asia: 48% of under fives in India are stunted, compared to 43% in Bangladesh and 37% in Pakistan.

Meanwhile 30% of babies in India are born underweight, compared to 22% in Bangladesh and 19% in Pakistan. UNICEF calculates that 40% of all underweight babies in the world are Indian.

Haq's Musings: Malnutrition Challenge in India, Pakistan

Mr. Riaz Haq :

I am neither an Indian Ruler nor their pompous and boastful middle class member but would reiterate that despite all your above news which I accept it is even worse for those country(ies) that the Indian Government is not Begging All and Sundry for a US Dollar 100 Billion Marshal Plan or the WB or IMF or China or EU or even Pakistan for "Help" in Terms of Money, Investment etc.

Over 2 U

 

[RiazHaq]

Mr. Riaz Haq :

I am neither an Indian Ruler nor their pompous and boastful middle class member but would reiterate that despite all your above news which I accept it is even worse for those country(ies) that the Indian Government is not Begging All and Sundry for a US Dollar 100 Billion Marshal Plan or the WB or IMF or China or EU or even Pakistan for "Help" in Terms of Money, Investment etc.

Over 2 U

Yes, their pride is more important to them than the lives of millions of poor and hungry Indians who deserve help.

The fact is that such aid comes to India by the billions of dollars each year from multiple sources including governments such as the British govt, World Bank, Gates Foundation, UNICEF, UNESCO, etc etc. If such aid weren't forthcoming, India would be a lot poorer than it is...already being the 14th poorest nation in the world.

 

[Mo12]

From the global innovation index report page 40:

http://www.globalinnovationindex.org/gii/GII COMPLETE_PRINTWEB.pdf

Hmm Ivory Coast is number 1 followed by Nigeria?

What a weird ranking lol.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Yes, their pride is more important to them than the lives of millions of poor and hungry Indians who deserve help.

The fact is that such aid comes to India by the billions of dollars each year from multiple sources including governments such as the British govt, World Bank, Gates Foundation, UNICEF, UNESCO, etc etc. If such aid weren't forthcoming, India would be a lot poorer than it is...already being the 14th poorest nation in the world.

look at ur country mr. riaz... before thinking about us...

43 % of poverty, 6-7 millions of poors are adding per year...

6-7m people joining the pool of poor each year | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

forget about the killing in sectarian and terrorist violence...

we are moving swiftly with a nice rate .. infact second fastest...

our poverty is reducing at a very fast pace..so don't worry about us... take some time to care about ur country ....which cannot survive a begging bowl

India's poverty will fall from 51% to 22% by 2015: UN report - The Times of India

 

[rcrmj]

Hmm Ivory Coast is number 1 followed by Nigeria?

What a weird ranking lol.

the table is about efficiency, not quantity or quality of innovation`

it means how efficient of using the resources injected``

maybe in terms of quantity india is ahead of pakistan, but efficiency wise the report shows india is behind of Pakistan

 

[Rafi]

I have personally seen the mass ranks of the wretched poor in india - it is a heart wrenching sight to behold. Thanks Mr Haq for enlightening us on this serious matter.

 

[RiazHaq]

look at ur country mr. riaz... before thinking about us...

43 % of poverty, 6-7 millions of poors are adding per year...

6-7m people joining the pool of poor each year | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

forget about the killing in sectarian and terrorist violence...

we are moving swiftly with a nice rate .. infact second fastest...

our poverty is reducing at a very fast pace..so don't worry about us... take some time to care about ur country ....which cannot survive a begging bowl

India's poverty will fall from 51% to 22% by 2015: UN report - The Times of India

Which do yo find more believable? First hand data and info from the 2011 World Bank report on poverty? Or second hand reports from newspaper stories?

Here's the link to the World Bank report:

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...d/PDF/574280PUB0Pers1351B0Extop0ID0186890.pdf

BTW, Cote D'Ivoire is also a lot richer than India....as are many other sub-Saharan countries.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Which do yo find more believable? First hand data and info from the 2011 World Bank report on poverty? Or second hand reports from newspaper stories?

Here's the link to the World Bank report:

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...d/PDF/574280PUB0Pers1351B0Extop0ID0186890.pdf

BTW, Cote D'Ivoire is also a lot richer than India....as are many other sub-Saharan countries.

this is ur own assessment... pakistan haven't done the poverty assessment for years and have provided rig data to get the loan from WB..

India is richer than pakistan because our economy is bigger and our per capita is more than pakistan.. with 14 % inflation there ia an increase of more than 3.5% in ur poverty.. and forget about the terrorist attacks...

and the second one is from UN report... do have a look...

 

[Mo12]

BTW, Cote D'Ivoire is also a lot richer than India....as are many other sub-Saharan countries.

How exactly? You

Thats like saying they are richer then England, because our resources are scarse.

 

[Mo12]

Anyway well done Pakistan for being leaders in innovation in South Asia