Pakistan is buying Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats

[Djinn]

Really... Do enlighten me.. how a 220ton kid is going to come in the distance of 500km from coast and find the CBG and Fire its poor AShM ???



Kid.. because you can't.... yes the design was borrowed from one of a older missile but inside its totally different..

First you prove to me how are you going to detect that boat and destroy considering it wont be alone and is stealthy.
As for Onyx, all i have to say is: What ever helps you sleep better at night................ You think that okay. Because that so called "game changer" is also available for Pakistan to buy if it so deems it necessary.

 

[Zarvan]

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Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization
By Usman Ansari
June 17, 2015

Chinese media reports have outlined a construction program involving six of eight S-20 variants of the Type-039A/Type-041 submarine under negotiation; four "Improved F-22P" frigates equipped with enhanced sensors and weaponry (possibly including the HQ-17 surface-to-air missile developed from the Russian Tor 1/SA-N-9); and six Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats, to be built by Pakistan's state-owned shipbuilder Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW).

The reports indicate Type-022 construction may be delayed by the ongoing Azmat fast attack craft building program, but also highlight a significant expansion of KSEW's facilities.

More Detail:
Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

After reading about weapons it can carry I have seriously started to think why on earth we went for Azmat Class around 20 of these can be real big boost to our Navy but still we need much larger ships I mean more Frigates and Corvettes and also destroyers

 

[Viper0011.]

Really... Do enlighten me.. how a 220ton kid is going to come in the distance of 500km from coast and find the CBG and Fire its poor AShM ???

Kid.. because you can't.... yes the design was borrowed from one of a older missile but inside its totally different..

Precisely the purpose of these boats.....these are hunter-killer stealth boats for high value targets. So Pakistan's extended EX now is around 350-400 miles I think. So your AC (please don't call your lonely AC a CBG lol ), both you and China need another decade and a half to build real CBG's. But if you party your AC, 200 miles out of the Pakistani EEZ to avoid missiles fired at you from the 400 Mile line. Then you'll lose so much attack value its not even funny. That would mean 1200 miles to Karachi on a two way trip on a Maritime mission where plane burn more fuel to take off a carrier with weapons, than on flight. So both Migs and Harriers will have limitations of range due to low fuel. Or you'l sacrifice the weapons load out and will make these loaded jets ducks for advance missiles. There is no happy ending in for anyone here

 

[$@rJen]

First you prove to me how are you going to detect that boat and destroy considering it wont be alone and is stealthy.
As for Onyx, all i have to say is: What ever helps you sleep better at night................ You think that okay. Because that so called "game changer" is also available for Pakistan to buy if it so deems it necessary.

MF star od Kolkata class is more than enought to detect this kid... not to mention the P-8 flying over

 

[Djinn]

That Naval blockade drama is history. The second they raised Pakistan's EEZ to 350-400 miles, that show of blockade was over. Due to extended EEZ, Pakistan has ALL the rights to keep her navy and jet patrolling and protecting the EEZ. So Pakistan's Navy will now cover, from the initial 100 miles or so, to now 350-400 miles. This takes Pakistan Navy's spread closer to other countries including the Strait of Homez on one side and on the other side, a couple of hundred miles parallel to the Mumbai port (Karachi to Mumbai flight is also less then 2 hours on sub sonic commercial planes). So that entire blockade discussion is history. Now PN needs more ships and subs to keep them spread out to 350-400 miles off the coast of Pakistan.

I'd even suggest doing what the Chinese did. Inside your EEZ, build a couple of Islands and airstrips and all. That way, you'll have secondary basis away from Pakistan, allowing her to monitor her EEZ. Once 2020 starts and majority of the projects inflght go live, you'll see the PAF and the PN transforming to much stronger forces, both in size and capability. PN over the next ten years, will gain close to double its current size. While the PAF will induct over 350 4th gen+ and 5th gen fighters. Just a few more years away!!!

Building artificial islands is a wonderful strategy to ensure the SLOCS security, but for that Area denial capabilities are a must, if Pakistan can develop these then Pakistan should go for Islands. Chinese are also reported to be developing floating airstrips, so for Pakistan the options are plenty.

MF star od Kolkata class is more than enought to detect this kid... not to mention the P-8 flying over

All i see is: Only our equipment will prevail and yours wont, Seriously? How will Kolkota destroy a stealth fast attack boat whose missile carries a range of 150 km and data linked with AWACS and fighter jets? You think the boat wouldn't know where the enemy ships are? As i said earlier fighting a cyber war isnt my thing. I have provided source regarding boats capabilities so read up on those instead of trying to prove your unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Osiris]

That Naval blockade drama is history. The second they raised Pakistan's EEZ to 350-400 miles, that show of blockade was over. Due to extended EEZ, Pakistan has ALL the rights to keep her navy and jet patrolling and protecting the EEZ. So Pakistan's Navy will now cover, from the initial 100 miles or so, to now 350-400 miles. This takes Pakistan Navy's spread closer to other countries including the Strait of Homez on one side and on the other side, a couple of hundred miles parallel to the Mumbai port (Karachi to Mumbai flight is also less then 2 hours on sub sonic commercial planes). So that entire blockade discussion is history. Now PN needs more ships and subs to keep them spread out to 350-400 miles off the coast of Pakistan.

I'd even suggest doing what the Chinese did. Inside your EEZ, build a couple of Islands and airstrips and all. That way, you'll have secondary basis away from Pakistan, allowing her to monitor her EEZ. Once 2020 starts and majority of the projects inflght go live, you'll see the PAF and the PN transforming to much stronger forces, both in size and capability. PN over the next ten years, will gain close to double its current size. While the PAF will induct over 350 4th gen+ and 5th gen fighters. Just a few more years away!!!

What nonsense?
In layman's terms EEZ is nothing but an extended fishing zone. EEZ offers no special rights to any Navy of world.

Theoretically Indian Carrier battle groups can go and drop anchor 13 NMs from Karachi, and there is nothing Pakistan can do about it.

Indian Navy has as much right to patrol or operate inside Pakistan's EEZ, as Pakistani Navy does.

Please explain how does one build an island in middle of Arabian sea..average depth of which is about 4000 meters, even the continental shelf along the Pakistani coastline is couple thousand meters deep.

The only natural Islands in Arabian sea are those belonging to India.

 

[313baberali]

[
If u search by gov link it shows a pdf document by ministryof defence,but it also only shows the link of deal but nit tell the model,it says 6 patrol boats we sign and in 3 stages till 2020 all 6 will be completed.first 2 till 2015 but no model number it says ,so i think type 022 is a diffrent and we order maritime patrol boats

 

[$@rJen]

Precisely the purpose of these boats.....these are hunter-killer stealth boats for high value targets. So Pakistan's extended EX now is around 350-400 miles I think. So your AC (please don't call your lonely AC a CBG lol ), both you and China need another decade and a half to build real CBG's. But if you party your AC, 200 miles out of the Pakistani EEZ to avoid missiles fired at you from the 400 Mile line. Then you'll lose so much attack value its not even funny. That would mean 1200 miles to Karachi on a two way trip on a Maritime mission where plane burn more fuel to take off a carrier with weapons, than on flight. So both Migs and Harriers will have limitations of range due to low fuel. Or you'l sacrifice the weapons load out and will make these loaded jets ducks for advance missiles. There is no happy ending in for anyone here

don't kid yourself boy... That lonely AC was enough for you in 71 don't you forget that kiddo. and don't compare Cina with India in this foeld.... we've decades of Experience in it.

Oh yes.... IN scared now of the 220 ton patrol boats which carry a Anti-ship missile which made a direct attack and couldn't even bring doen the 1000 ton Sa'ar class boat..

Kid.. IN will stay by 500km of the coast... what PN can do about it.. fire AshM from land??? how you're going to find/track and lock on the target??? don't fantasize yourself as you always do kid.... and be aware if those missile on the coast will actually be there when IN's and IAF's maritime strike fighter go for a strike.. especially Rafael. harrier will not join.. Migs has the rang of 1500 and ha the capability to kick anything coming in its way...

 

[Djinn]

What nonsense?
In layman's terms EEZ is nothing but an extended fishing zone. EEZ offers no special rights to any Navy of world.

Theoretically Indian Carrier battle groups can go and drop anchor 13 NMs from Karachi, and there is nothing Pakistan can do about it.

Indian Navy has as much right to patrol or operate inside Pakistan's EEZ, as Pakistani Navy does.

Please explain how does one build an island in middle of Arabian sea..average depth of which is about 4000 meters, even the continental shelf along the Pakistani coastline is couple thousand meters deep.

The only natural Islands in Arabian sea are those belonging to India.

The point you didn't grab: Within Pakistan's EEZ Pakistan can build artificial islands to serve the purpose of (A2/AD) capabilities or how ever you try to weaponize them..........They will supplement Pakistani naval defense.

 

[313baberali]

Ya artificial iland is good ideal or a flooting island,you know even if pakistan navy buy a old container ship like in guaddani,and make it a permanent spot just 15 nm away from indian waters in deap sea 150 nm to south,it will be great substitue,our atleast few helicopter land on that ship,sailers kind of have it a station where they can stay more relax and patroling shifts can work lot better,oil dump,food ,little hospital etcor kind of forword post .even a temporary prisoner jail,a big old container ship is ideal for floating island type,so then we have better patrolling,i saw cnn recently a floating island idea for home ,and it is really nice.i wish i can share the link but i dont have enough posts now

 

[$@rJen]

All i see is: Only our equipment will prevail and yours wont, Seriously? How will Kolkota destroy a stealth fast attack boat whose missile carries a range of 150 km and data linked with AWACS and fighter jets? You think the boat wouldn't know where the enemy ships are? As i said earlier fighting a cyber war isnt my thing. I have provided source regarding boats capabilities so read up on those instead of trying to prove your unsubstantiated claims.

Dude, Barak-8 was developed to take on the supersonic stealth missile.. and successfully now done with the rang of 90+KM..

Now.. these type-022 was designed and build to patrol coastal areas.. it can carry only 8 AshM at a time and has to scarifies its defenses... and it carries what C-802 which is subsonic with 0.9 mach... before this ship find IN ships she will be found and fired.. BrahMos has 300Km rang and there''s no way for this ship to stop the missile..

AWAC itself will have difficult to track them.. Its not tracking the fighters but SHips in ocean which quite difficult.. to keep updated it has to stay little closer and will be risking against Carrier and IAF's patrolling fighters...

Boats will know the ship's location once it find it... go and look for yourself about the radar and sensors of this ships ability to find them.. there's a reason its 220 ton.. (designed to patrol the coastal waters )

 

[Osiris]

The point you didn't grab: Within Pakistan's EEZ Pakistan can build artificial islands to serve the purpose of (A2/AD) capabilities or how ever you try to weaponize them..........They will supplement Pakistani naval defense.

Within India airspace, Indian can build a space station, which will fire lasers and shoot down all incoming missiles.But too bad technology for that does not exist.

Similarly technology for creating artificial island in 4 Km deep ocean does not exist. Unless Pakistan has managed to get its hands on Lex Luthor's kryptonian crystals.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Certain facts you have conveniently left out.
Brahmos is Moskit with a new paint job.
Type022 cannot be detected easily, so IF detected then comes the question of Moskit, which again only has the advantage of speed but not impervious to ECCM.
Babur incorporates stealthy features, so again good luck in detecting it too.
Type022 can operate at long distances.
Type 022, carries YG-83 which have super sonic speed at the terminal stage.
CM-400 dives at supersonic speed so it's most definitely not as easy to detect and shoot as you claim.
I called your stance childish, because you are trying to claim victory for IN on a cyber platform----------Now how much of that is based on your subjectivity, rather than ground realities is the key point.
Just like IN-------------Now you consider a mix of cruise missiles surface and air launched, precision guided glide bombs, torpedoes, ASW, AEW&C, naval air defenses and then consider the unlikely option of a naval blockade.

Its modified yakhont not moskit.Moskit has low range.
Brahmos does S-manuever in terminal stage and is also resistant to ECM.Its not just speed,its speed,kinetic energy,sea skimming ability and late stage manuevering at mach 3.
Babur is no more stealthy than say a tomahawk,subsonic missiles use sea skimming for late detection..it gives them survivability but newer SAMs can easily intercept these.A supersonic sea skimmer is much more potent.
Define 'long distance'.Because without air cover/asw escort a patrol boat out in the ocean is a sitting duck.
And brahmos is supersonic all the way making it hard to intercept at mid stage.IN already has klubs but prefered to replace klubs on talwar class with superior but costlier brahmos.
CM-400 is easy to detect and shoot down because 1)it can't perform manuevres 2)Due to High flight profile then dive its detected much earlier by radars due to no sea skimming.Its for this reason China doesn't really use this missile,its main ships use Yj-18/Yj-83.
I'm not claiming victory,i'm saying with current assets PN most probably can't stop a blockade.PN needs a air defence ship like FREMM frigate with aster instead of large numbers of patrol boats.However i agree these boats are better than azmat due to stealthy design and better missile.

 

[Osiris]

Ya artificial iland is good ideal or a flooting island,you know even if pakistan navy buy a old container ship like in guaddani,and make it a permanent spot just 15 nm away from indian waters in deap sea 150 nm to south,it will be great substitue,our atleast few helicopter land on that ship,sailers kind of have it a station where they can stay more relax and patroling shifts can work lot better,oil dump,food ,little hospital etcor kind of forword post .even a temporary prisoner jail,a big old container ship is ideal for floating island type,so then we have better patrolling,i saw cnn recently a floating island idea for home ,and it is really nice.i wish i can share the link but i dont have enough posts now

How do you make an island out of a ship and that too in deep sea? What will hold the ship to the spot?

People are talking out of their arses here, when they know nothing of oceans, ships or seas.

 

[Djinn]

Within India airspace, Indian can build a space station, which will fire lasers and shoot down all incoming missiles.But too bad technology for that does not exist.

Similarly technology for creating artificial island in 4 Km deep ocean does not exist. Unless Pakistan has managed to get its hands on Lex Luthor's kryptonian crystals.

Oh for the love of GOD! Pakistani littoral territories are not 4 km deep throughout. As for India it's not the Pakistani artificial islands that should be the worry, its Chinese in Maldives. On topic, If Pakistan seriously is considering this option then it can also go for floating islands.