Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[cabatli_53]

Well landing troops on land and support their landing by means of a cannon fire is great for nations that wish to be doing lot of landing of troop type missions. Pakistan's objective generally is keeping others from reaching our shores

Pakistan Navy , quite a few of our platforms , need the SAM systems

1- OHP
4-5 Fast Attack boats
0 Corvettes ("Zero")

Even having a round of 4-6 Missiles per ship creates a proper air security umberella , note the anti ship missiles are nomally located in the rear of the fast attack ships so its not like it can't be integrated

For the SAM missiles from Turkey or China I would assume we could install the slanted missile launcher, and then may be run the wiring and create it's own dedicated center of operation

I feel if we wanted we could technically arm the fast attack boats with leathal launchers

a) Nasr (Surace level engagement)
b) Hisar-O , Hisar-A series (Low / Medium Air defence)

Under-secretariat of Defense industry of Turkey (SSM) went a new project which is named as naval surface to air missile defence project. According to scope of project, It is underlined that;

-The Low, Medium and Long altitude guided missile systems having operational capability with Turkish naval combat management systems (Genesis-Advent), Multi-Purpose Phased Array radars (ÇAFRAD) to be integrated on TF-2000 frigates. It is believed that The naval SAM missiles will be modified variants of Hisar family in accordance with naval authorities' requirements (maybe RF seeker head on mid and long range missiles...etc)

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/anasayfa/projeler/Sayfalar/proje.aspx?projeID=391

According to Aselsan, The long altitude SAM seeker head, electronics, radars and command control systems are under the responsibility of Aselsan and It is declared that The development of Long altitude Hisar variant is being proceeded in accordance with schedule.

-Roketsan/Tubitak SAGE collaboration delivered first 12 Goktuğ air to air missile prototypes to related authorities to achieve the flight tests in this year. I mean Goktuğ missiles can easily be evolved into a Naval RAM equivalents with some modifications.

-Aselsan Korkut-D naval CIWS is in trials at present. It will be charged of Naval assets' aerial protection against all ranges of targets posing a threat in close ranges.

-Atmaca anti-ship missile (~250km) is introduced to respected defence magazine authors with images and What they told is really "impressive". It is expected to be given permission for public presentation in following months.

- A new naval missile called Temren (~18km) (Common sensor and components with Mizrak anti-tank missiles) which is going to be used for neutralizing the naval targets without entering into their RAM ranges is in final
phase.

- A land attack long range vertical launcable cruise missile called Gezgin which is going to be integrated on both surface and submarine combatants are under development. Schedule is not known.


- A heavy class national torpedo called Akya for submarines and light class torpedo called "Tork" for helicopters and warships are under trials. It is expected to see them on IDEF-17.

 

[Tank131]

This is just straight shore bombardment i.e. blanketing an area and forcing the opponents to keep heads down while you are landing. You anchor your ship. Weather needs be calm. Use cluster munitions.



Hisar is IIRH. If it is capable of lock-on before launch (LOBL), then it 'seeker needs to 'see' the target i.e. the system needs a turntable. If it can do lock-on after launch (LOAL), then it needs integration with ship's systems to receive target location information before launch.

For naval applications, the IIRH Hisar will be VLS launched. Land systems also are VL but vehicle mounted.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turkey-setting-sails-on-big-naval-ambitions.429539/#post-8293787

This is just a test launcher... It elevates but I don't think it rotates.

Nasr is an artillery rocket system, a short range surface to surface ballistic missile, its 60km rockets aren't guided. Suitable only for (nuclear) shorebombardment therefor. Of no value for anti-shipping roles.
http://isssp.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/R17-2013_NASR_Final.pdf



It may be possible to shoehorn in 2 Single Cell Launchers e.g. close to the center in the area where the rear step in the superstructure is i.e. next to the forward end of the hangar. Possibly 2-4 right right behind the main gun (these could even stick out above deck a bit). It quadpacked, that could give 16-24 surface to air missiles. Given just a single STING-EO radar illuminator/tracker, I'm wondering whether IRH or ARH missile (e.g. CAMM, IRIS-T, HISAR) would not be preferred, or whether a second channel would be needed. Or, using mast mounted planar radars e.g. CeaFar/CeaMount instead of Smart-S Mk2 and Sting-EO.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...o-develop-single-cell-launcher-(mar.-27).html

Aside from Mk41 VLS/SCL, also consider Mk48 GWLS

Mod 1 On Dutch M-frigate "Doorman class"

Mod 0 on Canadian Patrol Frigate "Halifax class"

Using the mod 0 used on Canadian frigate but mounting it like mod 1 on Dutch frigate may be possible e.g next to hangar or against front of stack. The pics above show single round boxes for VL Sea Sparrow and ESSM but e.g. Denmark has these with duo-packed ESSMs so 4 boxes (2 port, 2 starboard or 4 against stack) would give 8 rounds. These are about 1.5 decks tall!

View attachment 381248

Why could the same Mod 0 approach not be taken with the F-22Ps, placing VLS launchers where the current C-802s are and moving them to the front deck where fm90 currently sits in the same config as Alamghir?

 

[Penguin]

Why could the same Mod 0 approach not be taken with the F-22Ps, placing VLS launchers where the current C-802s are and moving them to the front deck where fm90 currently sits in the same config as Alamghir?

Did I state somewhere that this was impossible?

You would end up with a structure akin to what you can find on the JMSDF Murasame class destroyers

It would have to stay clear of the main mast though. It would also be a fairly tall structure (could affect balance).

I wonder if there'se enough room on PNS Alamgir, to squeeze in 1 such an 8-cell unit (16 ESSM) between the bridge and the base of the Mk13 launcher. There are 2x4 Harpoon there now.

 

[ziaulislam]

in my opinion f-22p can be just left alone and used more for its endurance and peaceful time
azmat should get a RAM defense system, while new accusation should have a VLS system
try mending your relationship with uncle SAM and get used oliver perry , get them fitted with VLS, they have ample space for it

Why could the same Mod 0 approach not be taken with the F-22Ps, placing VLS launchers where the current C-802s are and moving them to the front deck where fm90 currently sits in the same config as Alamghir?

 

[Tank131]

in my opinion f-22p can be just left alone and used more for its endurance and peaceful time
azmat should get a RAM defense system, while new accusation should have a VLS system
try mending your relationship with uncle SAM and get used oliver perry , get them fitted with VLS, they have ample space for it

Improved relationship with the US is always a positive but I dont see congress giving any more OHP. Australia would be a good place to get more OHP which already have vls.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think we should just remove the 'Today' bold claim as its week old thread now

 

[Sloth 22]

●List of ex-USN OHPs [Which are kept for FMS]
Halyburton[FFG40], Klakring[FFG42], De Wert[FFG45] , Vandegrift[FFG48] , Robert G. Bradley[FFG 49], Carr[FFG52], Elrod[FFG55] , Simpson[FFG56], Kauffman[FFG59], Rodney M. Davis[FFG60]

10 Ships.
Mexico, Thailand and Taiwan are looking for more American OHP hulls.

●List of ex-Australian OHPs
Out of total 6 hulls. 3 Have been decommissioned, of which 2 have been disposed off.

1 Decommissioned Hull [FFG03] remains awaiting disposal, another 3 hulls currently are in service and should see decommissioning as and when Hobart Class Destroyers get into service.

Here too a buyer can pick upto 4 hulls. The advantage of Later Australian hulls is , that they are as of today little over 25 Years old. Means a nice refit can see them 10-15 years of service easily.

●Spanish OHPs aka Santa Maria Class.
Spain built 6 such vessels under a licence for its navy. All 6 are currently in service and are relatively young too.


So if Pakistani diplomats can do their part , PN would benefit. They could pick up around 7 more relatively newer hulls.

All these then can be upgraded to serve in PN , taking care of PNs frigate needs for at least a decade.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Penguin @Tank131

I think the MILGEM Ada can handle at least two Sylver A43 sets (i.e. 16 cells). Adjacent placing (of each set) might preclude the need to push the main gun up. We might be able to take it to 32 cells if the gun is moved up the bow by 2-3 metres.

 

[nair]

As Nawaz Shareef is visiting Turkey. Many Turkish defense journalist are saying that we can expect Pakistan and Turkey signing the deal for supply of 4 Frigates to Pakistan.

The deal is signed????

 

[syed_yusuf]

Where is the deal?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Turkey and Pakistan are still negotiating. At IDEAS the Turkish side said that things are at an advanced stage - the two sides will determine weapons and subsystems. Pakistan will make its final decision (yes or no) after this coming July.

 

[Tank131]

@Penguin @Tank131

I think the MILGEM Ada can handle at least two Sylver A43 sets (i.e. 16 cells). Adjacent placing (of each set) might preclude the need to push the main gun up. We might be able to take it to 32 cells if the gun is moved up the bow by 2-3 metres.

It may indeed fit, but may need to be in a V-pattern with each 8 cell group tracing the bridge structure (8 slanted on Left and 8 cells on right). Not sure how it would affect the balance of the ship, if it would be too front heavy. The other issu is that you would lose 1 deck level below the VLS. So what was there? Where can it be moved? Thats one of the advantages of simply stretching the ship. You gain deck space below too.

 

[monitor]

Where is the deal?

In our Zarvan Bhai,'s sweet Dream.

●List of ex-USN OHPs [Which are kept for FMS]
Halyburton[FFG40], Klakring[FFG42], De Wert[FFG45] , Vandegrift[FFG48] , Robert G. Bradley[FFG 49], Carr[FFG52], Elrod[FFG55] , Simpson[FFG56], Kauffman[FFG59], Rodney M. Davis[FFG60]

10 Ships.
Mexico, Thailand and Taiwan are looking for more American OHP hulls.

●List of ex-Australian OHPs
Out of total 6 hulls. 3 Have been decommissioned, of which 2 have been disposed off.

1 Decommissioned Hull [FFG03] remains awaiting disposal, another 3 hulls currently are in service and should see decommissioning as and when Hobart Class Destroyers get into service.

Here too a buyer can pick upto 4 hulls. The advantage of Later Australian hulls is , that they are as of today little over 25 Years old. Means a nice refit can see them 10-15 years of service easily.

●Spanish OHPs aka Santa Maria Class.
Spain built 6 such vessels under a licence for its navy. All 6 are currently in service and are relatively young too.


So if Pakistani diplomats can do their part , PN would benefit. They could pick up around 7 more relatively newer hulls.

All these then can be upgraded to serve in PN , taking care of PNs frigate needs for at least a decade.

Considering current relationship with US Pakistan will double think before buying OHP, moreover Trump aggressive posture towards China US could offer OHP to Taiwan though he recently agreed on one China policy. We have to wait for getting clear picture of US policy .

 

[TOPGUN]

PN is no longer having hope in OHP's simply given the nature of relationship between the US and Pakistan and specially the new US admin. PN is looking for other options which a few on the table in regards to with China & Turkey only.

 

[Super Falcon]

Don't expect anything good for Pak from nawaz