Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[Penguin]

Most of the staffs in geopolitics and geostrategies are silent killers or saviors without much public documentations like the British constitution which is unwritten. Anyway, those who understand will fathom it, for others they don't need it..

If it is an insider thing, keep it an insider thing: lest it serves just to make appear important.

 

[-SINAN-]

can Pakistan afford a $6+ million dollar high tech Altay??

Head of SSM said that they are foreseeing the price of the tank.....1/40 of the development cost.
Project Development Cost: 550$ Million..... 550/40 = 13.75$ Million for the single tank.
http://www.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/seri-uretim-teklifi-haftaya-2386324

It sounds too much....., hopefully it's final price will be lower.

 

[C130]

Head of SSM said that they are foreseeing the price of the tank.....1/40 of the development cost.
Project Development Cost: 550$ Million..... 550/40 = 13.75$ Million for the single tank.
http://www.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/seri-uretim-teklifi-haftaya-2386324

It sounds too much....., hopefully it's final price will be lower.

I was making my guess comparing the K2 Black Panther which is $8+ million


anything over $10 million is insane

 

[Echo_419]

Head of SSM said that they are foreseeing the price of the tank.....1/40 of the development cost.
Project Development Cost: 550$ Million..... 550/40 = 13.75$ Million for the single tank.
http://www.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/seri-uretim-teklifi-haftaya-2386324

It sounds too much....., hopefully it's final price will be lower.

13.5 for one single tank???

 

[-SINAN-]

13.5 for one single tank???

I think the final price won't be that high....but that's what we heard officially.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

6 million is advertised price for tank on websites

Unit cost‎: ‎5.5-6 million Reference: Wiki

US Abraham Tank ranges 6-8 Mil range

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Havelsan C4 Seda is impressive submarine combat management system

 

[Blue Marlin]

does turkey even make their own sonars

 

[RPG]

http://www.meteksan.com/sualti-akustik-sistemleri/milli-sonar-uretim-ve-entegrasyonu

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

If it is an insider thing, keep it an insider thing: lest it serves just to make appear important.

IMHO, the most important part here is the brotherhood b/w Turkish and Pak folks - the rest are all details...

 

[waz]

Frankly, I am not sure what the major utility of the Ada class would be for PN. It is another ship with only point defense systems and not truly multirole, which is the need of the hour for PN. I agree with @Penguin that most engagement with IN would be via SSKs (of which PN will have 11). However these often would be sitting ducks against IN's sub-hunters in without surface protection in the form of Frigates/Corvettes. Now F-22P is moderately larger than the Ada. It is significantly longer (by 23m) though is slightly narrower with a beam of 13.8m vs 14.4m and has a slightly shallower draught (by 6in). Concominantly it has a max load displacement of 3100t vs 2400t of Ada. If redesigned along the lines of the C28A but with VLS systems like Sylver A50 with Quadpacked Umkhonto-R or CAMM, it would carry far more firepower for protection against aerial targets, than the Ada. In the proper load-out, it could be capable of carrying 96 - 128 medium range SAMs and if the boxes for C802 were moved to around the hanger location, could also carry 48 FL-3000N Short range SAM.

The TF-100 is not even a thing anymore and will be filled out by MILGEM Batch 2 AKA MILGEM-G which a @Penguin pointed out, will be 10M longer and carry ESSM and (like ADA-Class), the RAM. http://militaryedge.org/articles/turkey-expand-milgem-batch-ii-corvette-role-capability/

That places tremendous risk for PN given that ESSM May not be cleared for sale by US. If it is, that great, get a mk41 and place it on the Alamghir as well, but IF PN really wants to proceed with Turkish involvement in its corvette/frigate program, i would request that they RAM be replaced with FL-3000N and that Mk41 with ESSM be replaced by Sylver A50 with Umkhonto-R or CAMM.

Regarding the T-129, i actually prefer this given that it will be up to NATO standards vs the Wz-10. The Mi-28 will be a long shot. With the T-129, you could go for the Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D which powered the Mangusta (A-129) which would make it slightly less sanction prone as it is coming from UK. It would enable local weaponry to be integrated, like the Barq Missile instead of Hellfire/Umtas. Barq (likely being based off AR-1) has a suspected range between 8-10km. Having the Mi-28 would likely prohibit that use. More than its capabilities, it diversifies PN's suppliers and gives potiential for local manufacturing which Mi-28 for sure wouldnt.

Excellent post.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Frankly, I am not sure what the major utility of the Ada class would be for PN. It is another ship with only point defense systems and not truly multirole, which is the need of the hour for PN. I agree with @Penguin that most engagement with IN would be via SSKs (of which PN will have 11). However these often would be sitting ducks against IN's sub-hunters in without surface protection in the form of Frigates/Corvettes. Now F-22P is moderately larger than the Ada. It is significantly longer (by 23m) though is slightly narrower with a beam of 13.8m vs 14.4m and has a slightly shallower draught (by 6in). Concominantly it has a max load displacement of 3100t vs 2400t of Ada. If redesigned along the lines of the C28A but with VLS systems like Sylver A50 with Quadpacked Umkhonto-R or CAMM, it would carry far more firepower for protection against aerial targets, than the Ada. In the proper load-out, it could be capable of carrying 96 - 128 medium range SAMs and if the boxes for C802 were moved to around the hanger location, could also carry 48 FL-3000N Short range SAM.

The TF-100 is not even a thing anymore and will be filled out by MILGEM Batch 2 AKA MILGEM-G which a @Penguin pointed out, will be 10M longer and carry ESSM and (like ADA-Class), the RAM. http://militaryedge.org/articles/turkey-expand-milgem-batch-ii-corvette-role-capability/

That places tremendous risk for PN given that ESSM May not be cleared for sale by US. If it is, that great, get a mk41 and place it on the Alamghir as well, but IF PN really wants to proceed with Turkish involvement in its corvette/frigate program, i would request that they RAM be replaced with FL-3000N and that Mk41 with ESSM be replaced by Sylver A50 with Umkhonto-R or CAMM.

Regarding the T-129, i actually prefer this given that it will be up to NATO standards vs the Wz-10. The Mi-28 will be a long shot. With the T-129, you could go for the Rolls-Royce Gem 2-1004D which powered the Mangusta (A-129) which would make it slightly less sanction prone as it is coming from UK. It would enable local weaponry to be integrated, like the Barq Missile instead of Hellfire/Umtas. Barq (likely being based off AR-1) has a suspected range between 8-10km. Having the Mi-28 would likely prohibit that use. More than its capabilities, it diversifies PN's suppliers and gives potiential for local manufacturing which Mi-28 for sure wouldnt.

you forgetting somthing big here ? $46 billion big.... cpec. these ships are classed as litoral combat ships. didnt pakistan have its eez extended? They are not meant to engage indian ships they are meant to stay with in pakistans waters on patrol its high maneuverability moderate weapons capability (enough to take down big ships) and large size for endourance means its can say out on patroll for much longer durations. so when you compare the f22p with the ada you basically comparing a pe teacher to an athlete.
the tf-100 is classed as a light frigate(streched ada to hold a vls) as is the f22p so compare them

also have you noticed how much crew it takes to operate the ada as compared to the f22p ?

 

[cabatli_53]

does turkey even make their own sonars

-MIDAS National Piezoelectric Ceramic Development
Development of national piezoelectric ceramic Navy Type-1 and Navy Type-2 compositions, characterisation, production and test for Milgem Sonar.

Those ceramics are employed in several type of transducers and hyrophones at different frequencies.

MST01
Sonar transducer employed in several different staves for hull munted sonar systems.

MSH-01
As a passive underwater acoustic sensor, it is used as a hydrophone.

and Turkish Sonar called "Yakamoz"

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

IMHO, the most important part here is the brotherhood b/w Turkish and Pak folks - the rest are all details...

I think the Ship + Helicopter deal would be first step towards a broader
STRATEGIC cooperation pact

Already the two countries have come close due to Free trade framework suggestions between two nations

Both Turkey and Pakistan have suffered due to wars started by Third party who then disappears leaving the "snakes" to attack innocent by means of terrorism

Pakistan had best economy in Asia in 70's

and we suffered due to war against Communism crap and now same is happening to Turkey with these so called war close to their border

 

[Blue Marlin]

-MIDAS National Piezoelectric Ceramic Development
Development of national piezoelectric ceramic Navy Type-1 and Navy Type-2 compositions, characterisation, production and test for Milgem Sonar.

Those ceramics are employed in several type of transducers and hyrophones at different frequencies.

MST01
Sonar transducer employed in several different staves for hull munted sonar systems.

MSH-01
As a passive underwater acoustic sensor, it is used as a hydrophone.

and Turkish Sonar called "Yakamoz"

thanks
so when the a-90b's go for the upgrade will they come with a sonar or will it just come with a comand and control suite