Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[mzain]

I do not claim certain things as long as they are not proven by official sources but It is being given like that. If 4th Milgem that Pakistan will construct, will be re-designed frigate variant of corvettes (similar approach like Istanbul class), It will certainly be included some VLS units and Construction will follow with addition orders. Until this time, Turkish domestic VL units with national SAM missiles will also be operational on those ships without any restrictions. The current roadway may envisage such a timeline to benefit the national development programs to add strategic values into those ships without affected by outside pressures step by step.

I don't think so for two reasons.
first 3rd and 4th will be construct also most same time with 6 months difference. Redesigning takes lot of time and can not possible to make that happen quickly.
secondly, if 4th ship have to redesign, it will be a different contract. It can be happen for 5th ship but i don't think so that it is included in this 4 ship contract.

 

[araz]

I don't think so for two reasons.
first 3rd and 4th will be construct also most same time with 6 months difference. Redesigning takes lot of time and can not possible to make that happen quickly.
secondly, if 4th ship have to redesign, it will be a different contract. It can be happen for 5th ship but i don't think so that it is included in this 4 ship contract.

There is a 4-5 year gap between now and 2023. Why can people not get on the design board and formulate a plan for future development? Secondly why can this not just be Istanbul class with minor changes done locally. There is a lot that can be done provided both parties are agreeable. There is a lot of business going on between Pak and Turkey and this is another sign of fast developing collaboration on multiple levels.
A

 

[cabatli_53]

I don't think so for two reasons.
first 3rd and 4th will be construct also most same time with 6 months difference. Redesigning takes lot of time and can not possible to make that happen quickly.
secondly, if 4th ship have to redesign, it will be a different contract. It can be happen for 5th ship but i don't think so that it is included in this 4 ship contract.

According to a Navy news release, the contract includes “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual proprietary rights for the design of these ships to Pakistan.”

The use of indigenous technology appears to be firmly on the cards, as the news release says the fourth corvette “will be designed jointly by Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC) and will be the first indigenously designed and constructed frigate.”

Use of the term “frigate” may imply extensive redesign is planned, possibly enlargement that adds more capable systems and weaponry, similar to Turkey further developing the Ada design into the Istanbul-class frigate.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...nsfer-deal-with-turkey/#.Wz50DXZlUcI.facebook

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

There is a 4-5 year gap between now and 2023. Why can people not get on the design board and formulate a plan for future development? Secondly why can this not just be Istanbul class with minor changes done locally. There is a lot that can be done provided both parties are agreeable. There is a lot of business going on between Pak and Turkey and this is another sign of fast developing collaboration on multiple levels.
A

It will be KOM and assembled locally? What changes? I highly doubt it.

 

[-------]

According to a Navy news release, the contract includes “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual proprietary rights for the design of these ships to Pakistan.”

The use of indigenous technology appears to be firmly on the cards, as the news release says the fourth corvette “will be designed jointly by Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC) and will be the first indigenously designed and constructed frigate.”

Use of the term “frigate” may imply extensive redesign is planned, possibly enlargement that adds more capable systems and weaponry, similar to Turkey further developing the Ada design into the Istanbul-class frigate.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...nsfer-deal-with-turkey/#.Wz50DXZlUcI.facebook

Now this is what I wanted to hear, now we have confirmation that Pakistan with help of Turkey will design and build a Frigate based on Pakistani regional requirements. May we see continued joint projects in the future in all fields!

 

[T-123456]

According to a Navy news release, the contract includes “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual proprietary rights for the design of these ships to Pakistan.”

The use of indigenous technology appears to be firmly on the cards, as the news release says the fourth corvette “will be designed jointly by Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC) and will be the first indigenously designed and constructed frigate.”

Use of the term “frigate” may imply extensive redesign is planned, possibly enlargement that adds more capable systems and weaponry, similar to Turkey further developing the Ada design into the Istanbul-class frigate.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...nsfer-deal-with-turkey/#.Wz50DXZlUcI.facebook

I tried to explain this in other words but as you know,some ''experts,professional'' in here,know better.

 

[cabatli_53]

Now this is what I wanted to hear, now we have confirmation that Pakistan with help of Turkey will design and build a Frigate based on Pakistani regional requirements. May we see continued joint projects in the future in all fields!

With this deal, It is understood that Pakistan and Turkey will follow same paths on Naval industry to provide similar solutions for Armed Forces. Previous deals like Agosta submarine upgrade, Mini submarine and FRS deals have already tied industries eachother but This warship deal will certainly increase the level of collaboration in extreme points. Milgem + Enlenghtened Frigate (designed by Turk/Pakistani team) will boost the naval industry capabilities of both nation, while subsystem level sensor/software/missiles/EW will also be on the table during this period. I strongly believe Tf-2000 destroyers with long range domestic sufrace to air missiles and ÇAFRAD radar on board will be the next big step both nation will join hand to hand. We will see!

 

[mzain]

According to a Navy news release, the contract includes “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual proprietary rights for the design of these ships to Pakistan.”

The use of indigenous technology appears to be firmly on the cards, as the news release says the fourth corvette “will be designed jointly by Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC) and will be the first indigenously designed and constructed frigate.”

Use of the term “frigate” may imply extensive redesign is planned, possibly enlargement that adds more capable systems and weaponry, similar to Turkey further developing the Ada design into the Istanbul-class frigate.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...nsfer-deal-with-turkey/#.Wz50DXZlUcI.facebook

If this true (and i am hopping i will) then we will celebrating it on a whole new level in next 5-6 years. InshaAllah

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

With this deal, It is understood that Pakistan and Turkey will follow same paths on Naval industry to provide similar solutions for Armed Forces. Previous deals like Agosta submarine upgrade, Mini submarine and FRS deals have already tied industries eachother but This warship deal will certainly increase the level of collaboration in extreme points. Milgem + Enlenghtened Frigate (designed by Turk/Pakistani team) will boost the naval industry capabilities of both nation, while subsystem level sensor/software/missiles/EW will also be on the table during this period. I strongly believe Tf-2000 destroyers with long range domestic sufrace to air missiles and ÇAFRAD radar on board will be the next big step both nation will join hand to hand. We will see!
View attachment 484633

For the bolded...

It needs more than Industrial capability or money; given the current situation especially in Pakistan, It is almost impossible. However, the determination of Pakistan for the Nuke capability sheds very thiny light of hope for it.

Therefore, The rumours about the deal of 4 corvettes are disturbing, and posing multiple threats for Turk industry of defence and interests of Turkey in mid/long terms at global level. Irrational risks and engagments taken.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

For the bolded...

It needs more than Industrial capability or money; given the current situation especially in Pakistan, It is almost impossible. However, the determination of Pakistan for the Nuke capability sheds very thiny light of hope for it.

Therefore, The rumours about the deal of 4 corvettes are disturbing, and posing multiple threats for Turk industry of defence and interests of Turkey in mid/long terms at global level. Irrational risks and engagments taken.

The first ship for Pakistan is due in 54 months - i.e. 4.5 years. This is a long time, so it's likely that the program has been staged such to ensure that most Pakistani payments are made prior to starting construction.

 

[BRAVO_]

seems like a good harvesting season last month both govts signed the deal of ATAK T-129 now 4 Milgem Corvettes ..... what next????? does the Altay Tanks are also in shopping list??? because earlier this year i heard the news PA was negotiating about Altay thanks

 

[khanasifm]

First time pn will have eventually more than 20 + 500 ton + ships

 

[Gryphon]

According to a Navy news release, the contract includes “complete transfer of technology and the transfer of intellectual proprietary rights for the design of these ships to Pakistan.”

The use of indigenous technology appears to be firmly on the cards, as the news release says the fourth corvette “will be designed jointly by Pakistan’s Maritime Technologies Complex (MTC) and will be the first indigenously designed and constructed frigate.”

Use of the term “frigate” may imply extensive redesign is planned, possibly enlargement that adds more capable systems and weaponry, similar to Turkey further developing the Ada design into the Istanbul-class frigate.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...nsfer-deal-with-turkey/#.Wz50DXZlUcI.facebook

'Indigenous' has a different meaning in the Pakistani military.. they will probably move the Mk 141 (Harpoon) launchers from PNS Shahjahan/Tippu Sultan & Alamgir onto the first three Milgem's.

The fourth one will be installed with Harbah, and a ship design by MTC will be proclaimed - as done with PNS Himmat.

 

[BATMAN]

I think 5 billion is total deal i.e. t129 milgem submarine upgradation and weapons

I also think so. It can't be only 4 milgem.
It must be T129, along its local service setup.

TOT?
It is the best way for both party to get easy money in the name of TOT

For hardware, there is Easy price comparison
But, what is the price of TOT?

Pakistan have some experience of Submarines construction, but not so much of war ship building.
I guess some ships would be built in Pakistan.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It will be KOM and assembled locally? What changes? I highly doubt it.

There's a subtle difference with the Turkish MILGEM and what the PN has bought thus far from France and China.

The Turks had designed the MILGEM around COTS. They don't own any of the inputs (e.g. steel, engines or the composite superstructure), but they own the original design and integration expertise necessary to modify the ship at will.

However, the inputs are most imported from Germany, the US, UK, etc.

If STM at least transfers the necessary know-how to KSEW/MTC to integrate the PN's choice of subsystems and weapons (i.e. an original configuration), that could be big.

We lament about how MTC/KSEW lack expertise to do an original configuration. Well, STM has literally built its business on that ability, what if ToT here means teaching original design and configuration (albeit limited to the MILGEM)?