Pakistan in talks for 4 Ada Class Corvettes, T-129 Helicopters & modernization of agosta fleet

[New World]

As always, you can'make a straight unit cost calculation by dividing contract value by the number of ships (the contract usually includes all sorts of things besaides the ships temselves). For example, if ships are to be built in Pakistan, that would involve some extra cost.
Besides, good defence equipment costs money. If one is not willing or able to spend, don't come up with arm-long wish lists for high-end stuff (i.e. adjust your expectations to what is realistically possible).

ps: what is the source for contract value?

The project covers the construction of eight corvettes (Ada class) and four frigates (TF-100 class) for the Turkish Navy, with possible exports to other countries.[4] The first two ships of the class, TCG Heybeliada and TCG Büyükada were built by the Istanbul Naval Shipyard Command. The cost of the lead ship Heybeliada was around US$260 million.[5] On January 3, 2013, the Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industries announced that RMK Marine Gemi Yapım Sanayi A.Ş., a Turkish shipbuilding company, will construct a further six MİLGEM project (Ada class) corvettes for the Turkish Navy at a cost of US$1.5 billion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILGEM_project

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILGEM_project

The T-37 does not belong in the same category as the Mushak or the Hurkus, it is an advanced trainer not a basic one. Neither did Hurkus replace them in TuAF. We on the other hand have been replacing our T-37s with K-8s (not Mushaks).

That said, your point about Turkey purchasing the Mushak while developing the Hurkus being confusing is valid.

i think you are confusing me more... TuAF uses T-38 Talon for advance jet trainer and T-37 tweets are basic jet trainer..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

He hasn't said anything like that

read the content of your own post
you must pay attention to what you post

 

[HAIDER]

Incorrect.
Turkiye has right to sell it whoever she wants except UK and Italy.

The problem is engine. T129 has US engine and most probably us may not want to sell it.

That's what I addressed...engine issue.

 

[Oguzhan]

What if i say,they buy t-129 for frigates?
It just came to my mind and it is possible.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

i think you are confusing me more... TuAF uses T-38 Talon for advance jet trainer and T-37 tweets are basic jet trainer..

If you are getting confused between training aircraft then this might help.

Pilots have to fly various aircraft till they reach to the final type in the Air Force. Lets take PAF to understand better.

First Stage is Basic Flight Training
Usually this is on basic single piston engine 2 or 4 seat aircraft.
Mushak / Super Mushak / Cessna-172

Second Stage Basic Flight Training
This can be done on high performance piston engine aircraft. It does not indicate that these aircraft can not perform the First stage Tasks
Hurkus / PC-7 / Tucano

PAF does not use any of these aircraft but uses the Mushak to do these. This might be to save operation costs.

Intermediate Stage / Jet - Subsonic
The Conversion from piston engine to jet engine and ability to fly at sub sonic speeds
T- 37 Tweets / K-8

Advance Stage / Jet - Supersonic
This requires supersonic aircraft.
Turkey uses T-38 Talon

Fighter Conversion
Depending on which aircraft is considered by the Air Force as it first
F-7pg / Mirage

Then all the rest are Fighter conversions till the F-16 blk 52

 

[Arsalan]

I was referring to the design. Should the PN decide to stick with the MILGEM, it can hop onto Turkey's efforts to scale the design up into a light frigate. So, it'd be 4 corvettes in the medium-term, maybe 4 TF-100 frigates after 2020, etc. At the end of the day, the F-22P is a descendant of the Type 053H3; is there a limit on how much we can beat and stretch that design. I honestly don't know.

Yeh MILGEM project do includes these ada class corvettes and TF100 frigates in future. The tech will lead up to the more ambitious (at least the plan is) TF2000

 

[ANMDT]

@Penguin

Do you think that it'll be possible to increase the number of VLS cells to 32 for Istanbul Class (Milgim 2) without enlarging the hull? Also, What do you think about CAFRAD for Istanbul Class?

You have asked to @Penguin but let me answer for the VLS cells. There is adequate volume and area which is not utilized and small size VLS could be fitted there easily. So 16 for milgem 1 and 32 for milgem 2 isnt a dream.
A month at most needed to fit it there even on existing ships.

 

[RAMPAGE]

You have asked to @Penguin but let me answer for the VLS cells. There is adequate volume and area which is not utilized and small size VLS could be fitted there easily. So 16 for milgem 1 and 32 for milgem 2 isnt a dream.
A month at most needed to fit it there even on existing ships.

How are you doing bro? Long time no see! Neptune, Yes?

What about CAFRAD? Overkill or a good idea? What about a long range SAM? HHQ-9 seems to be the only viable option.

Edit: Sorry, I confused you with another Turkish member.

 

[XILLAX]

 

[Av8er]

I posted this news on Indian Defence Forums to check their reaction. As always our beloved neighbors didn't disappoint me.

Please do share some choice excerpts

 

[ziya]

A goverment company called STM in Turkey finished the modernization process of AY class- type 209 of submarines of turkish navy,The process includes Aselsan Ares 2S electronic warfare units and torpedo counter measure systems

 

[ziaulislam]

i think we should drop cobras and either select the z-10 or turkish option

 

[mustafa erkan]

Modernization of agosta is very interesting for me.Pakistan uses perry class frigate which has genesis.Now with 4 ada class and agostas with genesis Pakistan fleet become very capable.
With these ships we can except Pakistan will get Akya torpedo,Atmaca asw,Aselsan tork etc
If we look carefully to EFES 2016 except US and Germany all countries are our strategic allies and we will support them with our weapons.This is the beginning we may see ada class corvettes also in SA,QATAR,Ukraine etc.
They need us and we need them.

 

[New World]

If you are getting confused between training aircraft then this might help.

Pilots have to fly various aircraft till they reach to the final type in the Air Force. Lets take PAF to understand better.

First Stage is Basic Flight Training
Usually this is on basic single piston engine 2 or 4 seat aircraft.
Mushak / Super Mushak / Cessna-172

Second Stage Basic Flight Training
This can be done on high performance piston engine aircraft. It does not indicate that these aircraft can not perform the First stage Tasks
Hurkus / PC-7 / Tucano

PAF does not use any of these aircraft but uses the Mushak to do these. This might be to save operation costs.

Intermediate Stage / Jet - Subsonic
The Conversion from piston engine to jet engine and ability to fly at sub sonic speeds
T- 37 Tweets / K-8

Advance Stage / Jet - Supersonic
This requires supersonic aircraft.
Turkey uses T-38 Talon

Fighter Conversion
Depending on which aircraft is considered by the Air Force as it first
F-7pg / Mirage

Then all the rest are Fighter conversions till the F-16 blk 52

thanks bro...for clarifying this..

 

[Hell hound]

The RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) is a small, lightweight, infrared / rf homing surface-to-air missile in use by the American, German, Japanese, Greek, Turkish, South Korean, Saudi Arabian, and Egyptian navies. It was intended originally and is used primarily as a point-defense weapon against anti-ship cruise missiles. However, it can also be used against surface targets. It has a range of 9km. The block 2 missile has nearly double the effective range.

RIM-116 Block 1 (below) and block 2 (top)

Also, the dual role 76mm Compact Super Rapid naval gun as such is a good AAA system. If fitted with Strales System and DART ammunition it is capable of countering anti-ship missiles from 1,000 to 6,000 meters away, a longer range than other gun-based CIWS (i.e. that would be your CIWS).

Besides, Batch 2 Milgems / TF-100 would be larger (110m rather than 99m) and heavier armed, with double the number of Harpoon/AShM and 2x 8-cell mk41 VLS (for e.g. 16 ESSM and 12 VLAsroc)

Harpoon block II was about $1.2 million in 2011

RAM = missile based CIWS

"The RAM program is designed to provide surface ships with an effective, low-cost, lightweight, self-defense system which will provide an improved capability to engage and defeat incoming antiship cruise missiles (ASCMs). RAM is a joint United States and German venture to design an effective, low cost, lightweight quick-reaction, self-defense system which will increase the survivability of otherwise undefended ships."
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/ram.htm

totally agree with you that rim is a great missile and is extremely potent point defense missile but i work best when coupled with other system like standard missile like of which we lack in PN.
My problem is not with the missile but over all utility of the ship when you know what PN's opponent operate.