Pakistan has formally proposed Siachen pullback - India

[Invincible INDIAN]

I so hope India pull back so we can sneak in and occupy the whole of Siachen, we will not withdraw, we must not give an inch to the deadly and evil enemy

We already knew even before it came into your mind. You know why?

 

[Secur]

You have taken the first step for troops withdrawal...you have now put the ball in India's court.

I do not see the PA moving out of Gyong La or Conway Saddle ... What exactly do you mean by the first steps for troops withdrawal ?

It is just a proposal by the cowardly democratic government of Pakistan not by the army ...

The moment they ask PA to pull back unilaterally , Zardari and Co will have nowhere to hide ...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

We already knew even before it came into your mind. You know why?

Because we are great mind-readers!!!

We can even sketch out the scenario of how it will happen. Some "Freedom Fighters/Mujahideen/Lashkars/Non-State Actors" will trudge up there and occupy the place.
Then if India responds, there will be cries of: "We don't know them, they are not part of us, they have nothing to do with us, may be they came from Mars by UFOs.............................we don't want the bodies since they are aliens from another galaxy."

Another Ray Bradbury story.

Deja Vu.

 

[Omega007]

I for one could never understand why the hell did the IA capture and placed itself on that barren wasteland named the Saltoro ridge!!Instead,when they had all ready decided to unilatterally violate Shimla agreement,they could have easily captured the Dansum and Khapala west to the Saltoro ridge.It's situated on an average height of just 12000 ft and the terrain there is mostly flat.This position could have greatly reduced the burden on logistics and the troopers.Besides,these positions are excellant to place heavy artillery guns and MBRLs which could have been proven of great advantage for IA.
But the most important issue is that the three strategic passes-Sia La,Bilafond La and Khardung La meets in Dansum.That means capturing Dansum could have facilited IA to keep control over these three passes with out the need to permanently occupy them with so much trouble.
Don't know what Gen Chibber and Gen Hoon were thinking in 1984 when they were planning Operation Meghdoot!!

 

[Dr. NooB NinjA]

There is nothing which India stands to gain as of now by pulling back the troops form Siachen..!! As in seriously; what good can come out of it for the IA.. They have learned to survive very well on the highest battlefield on earth ... And anyway giving up a strategic stronghold just because the enemy(as considered by many) wants us to?? Makes absolutely no sense to me..!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Discussion on Siachen in NDTV

Siachen: Time for a thaw?

I was pleasantly shocked when I heard that there is a waiting list in IA for serving in Saichen.

Thanks for the link bro- watching the vid clearly shows who is the aggressor and who is the defender.

And the waiting list part- just astonishing. IA continues to impress me, truly men apart. Like the man said "that is what the IA is all about Ma'am"!!!

 

[Secur]

Instead,when they had all ready decided to unilatterally violate Shimla agreement,they could have easily captured the Dansum and Khapala west to the Saltoro ridge.

Do you think they would have met with no resistance ? ... Siachin was a " no man's land " doesn't mean it is true for other areas of NA too ... PA was vigilant and alert at that time and any action would have resulted in dire consequences ...

 

[I spikes therefore I am]

Just read this thread

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/175878-why-quitting-siachen-will-disastrous.html

Following the 1947-48 war between India and Pakistan, the Cease Fire Line was delineated under the Karachi Agreement of 1949 only up to a point on the map known as Point NJ 9842. The area to the north, being highly inaccessible and glaciated, was not delineated, but the direction of the CFL beyond NJ 9842 was unambiguously stated as ‘thence north to the glaciers.’ The same happened when the CFL was replaced by the LoC after the 1971 war.

In 1984, having received hard intelligence that the Pakistani army was about to secure the area, the Indian army, in a preemptive move, occupied the Saltoro Ridge, which constitutes the watershed and runs parallel to the length of the Siachen Glacier on its western side. It has been called the Actual Ground Position Line since. The Pakistani army made many attempts to throw us back, but all such attacks were repulsed. Having failed militarily, Pakistan decided negotiations were a more pragmatic option.

Discussions so far have been unsuccessful as Pakistan has been insisting on their terms for a resolution.

The Pakistan army’s last audacious attempt to dislodge us from Siachen was made in 1999, when they captured Kargil and surrounding areas with the aim of cutting off our supply routes to Ladakh and secure Siachen by this indirect stratagem. However, the bravery and courage of our troops saved the day. Another pertinent fact that must not be lost sight of is that in 1963, Pakistan had unilaterally and illegally conceded the Shaksgam area, north of Siachen, to China.
Since early April, following a major avalanche in the area occupied by the Pakistani army, an orchestrated attempt is being made to bring the issue back in focus. The important myths and realities are discussed below.

First, the contention that Siachen and Saltoro have no strategic value is wrong. If Saltoro had not been occupied by our troops, Pakistan from the west and China from the east would have long since linked up, with the strategic Karakoram Pass under their complete control. The illegal ceding away of the Shaksgam Valley by Pakistan to China has completed the encirclement of this crucial area. It is only our occupation of Saltoro that has driven a wedge between the two. By controlling Saltoro, we have also retained the option of negotiating with China over Shaksgam valley at the appropriate time.

Second, the Pakistani stance that since India is the aggressor, it should vacate the area, is a travesty of truth, as what our troops did in April 1984 was to occupyour own areas; no border or line was crossed as the entire area, not having been delineated, belongs to India.

Third, it is stated that unnecessary casualties are being incurred on account of the treacherous terrain and climate. This is no longer the case with us, as the Indian army has learnt its lessons.

Fourth, an additional reason stated is that Rs5 crore is being spent every day on our troops there. While the figure may be disputed, should sovereignty be measured in this manner?

The Siachen issue is important for the peace process, but there are many others that are more important and pressing, and which need to be resolved first. We seem to have fallen for the Pakistani ploy of looking at Siachen as a separate issue, unrelated to the LoC, when de facto it is an extension of the LoC. Pakistan’s compulsion on the issue must not translate into a sellout by India, for it will be an unmitigated disaster if it happens.

The most important point we have to keep in mind is that while it suits Pakistan to get our troops to vacate the commanding heights of the Saltoro Ridge, we would lose them permanently if we do so, as regaining them would be militarily extremely difficult. Despite this, if there is a compulsion to resolve the issue, then the first action must be to delineate the AGPL, before any shifting of troops takes place. Pakistan has so far refused to accept this, perhaps with an ulterior motive of occupying it at some future date!

Pakistan has been proposing that both sides should withdraw to positions that existed prior to the occupation of the Saltoro Ridge, but this must not be accepted as our troops will take longer to return to their positions, should this become necessary, on account of the difficult terrain on our side. There is also a need to work out a detailed joint mechanism to ensure that the terms of the resolution are strictly adhered to.

The writer is a former vice chief, Indian Army

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I for one could never understand why the hell did the IA capture and placed itself on that barren wasteland named the Saltoro ridge!!Instead,when they had all ready decided to unilatterally violate Shimla agreement,they could have easily captured the Dansum and Khapala west to the Saltoro ridge.It's situated on an average height of just 12000 ft and the terrain there is mostly flat.This position could have greatly reduced the burden on logistics and the troopers.Besides,these positions are excellant to place heavy artillery guns and MBRLs which could have been proven of great advantage for IA.
But the most important issue is that the three strategic passes-Sia La,Bilafond La and Khardung La meets in Dansum.That means capturing Dansum could have facilited IA to keep control over these three passes with out the need to permanently occupy them with so much trouble.
Don't know what Gen Chibber and Gen Hoon were thinking in 1984 when they were planning Operation Meghdoot!!

Not quite. Op Meghdoot did not anticipate what you are thinking of. Even now the IA is not planning to fight pitched battles there, nobody can. Except the "Legion of Super-Heroes" perhaps.

"Siachen is all about the Glacier". That is the most important factor.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistani president, Asif Zardari, had formally appealed to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for a mutual withdrawal of troops from the Siachen Glacier.

What? Since when has Pakistan been in occupation of the Siachen Glacier? They are nowhere near it! Siachen lies to the East of the Soltoro Ridge that India is occupying. Pakistani troops are toward the West of Soltoro and far removed from the glacier!!

Therefore Pakistan asking for a mutual withdrawal from the Glacier doesn't make sense as they are nowhere near it! In case the Pakistan Army takes control of Siachen by occupying the dominating Soltoro ridge line after Indian troops withdraw, Pakistan would then be able to link up with China right above India’s nose. Here, politics should be dictated by strategic concerns.

This map explains the positions of both countries. With such divergent views, can there ever be a solution to this imbroglio?

All this talk of Siachen being a 'wasteland having no strategic significance is a load of baloney! A Pak-China link-up at the Karakoram pass (See map above) would spell disaster! Are our clueless politicians listening?

And by the way, Pakistan has already ceded 5,180 sq km of Kashmir territory to China in 1963. The entire are is North and North West of the Siachen Glacier. The grave implications for India withdrawing from Siachen are therefore further acerbated by this fact.

Therefore where India is concerned, a withdrawal from Siachen is not an option. This hawkish position of mine should be understood by my Pakistani friends because as far as I'm concerned, the security of India comes first always and every time!

 

[Patriot]

Well, it will be a strategic blunder for pakistan to pull back unilaterally. If done so, India would have the opportunity to capture strategic road links to China with ease. of course that will be a blunder for pakistan.

The retarded politicians want unilateral withdrawl of Pakistan Army but our Army Chief has clearly stated that Pakistan Army would never leave Siachen uni-laterally.

 

[ziaulislam]

What's India's stand? is India even contemplating a pullback?, there has been no official reply / statement, nothing whatsoever from India's side to Pakistan's April 8th request. A Siachin pullout is not even being discussed in India, other than a few random articles about it, there's nothing from our side.

I don't think India has any intentions of a pull back from Siachin.

well FACTS and statistics shows that india captured it first (a nice pretense that Pakistan was planning to do so!!)
and now when we ask for mutual withdraw they say NO

and now even an idiot can tell who is at fault.

 

[Bharat_singh]

If govt. is really thinking of demilitarisation of siachen,than I would suggest it would be better to give siachen to Pakistan than to demilitraze it. In this way we would
First avoid a future war b/w India and Pakistan in which some tribals would capture siachen and then Indian Army would flush them
Second save Pakistan from embarassment of dishonouring its word like in Kargil and before &
Third we would save ourself from becoming a laughing stock in the world who will say fool you once shame on them, fool you again and again shame on you

PS: I am not in favour of demilitrisation
Reason: My reasonable knowledge of history. I can't predict future but I can certainly learn from history.

 

[Subramanian]

What? Since when has Pakistan been in occupation of the Siachen Glacier? They are nowhere near it! Siachen lies to the East of the Soltoro Ridge that India is occupying. Pakistani troops are toward the West of Soltoro and far removed from the glacier!!

Therefore Pakistan asking for a mutual withdrawal from the Glacier doesn't make sense as they are nowhere near it! In case the Pakistan Army takes control of Siachen by occupying the dominating Soltoro ridge line after Indian troops withdraw, Pakistan would then be able to link up with China right above India’s nose. Here, politics should be dictated by strategic concerns.

This map explains the positions of both countries. With such divergent views, can there ever be a solution to this imbroglio?

All this talk of Siachen being a 'wasteland having no strategic significance is a load of baloney! A Pak-China link-up at the Karakoram pass would spell disaster! Are our clueless politicians listening?

And by the way, Pakistan has already ceded 5,180 sq km of Kashmir territory to China in 1963. The entire are is North and North West of the Siachen Glacier. The grave implications for India withdrawing from Siachen are therefore further acerbated by this fact.

Therefore where India is concerned, a withdrawal from Siachen is not an option. This hawkish position of mine should be understood by my Pakistani friends because as far as I'm concerned, the security of India comes first always and every time!

it is very simple,

If Musharraf did something as dangerous as Kargil for Siachen,doesnt it say how valuable it is?

 

[JanjaWeed]

Talks on Siachen in June, don't expect dramatic result: Antony

India today made it clear that it would insist on proper authentication by Pakistan of the troop positions in Siachen before any disengagement is undertaken and cautioned against expecting any "dramatic" result from the next round of talks in June on the vexed issue.

Talks on Siachen in June, don't expect dramatic result: Antony - Indian Express