Pakistan-GCC military cooperation. Is it worthwhile?

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam


You have to keep in mind that there are no purely military engagements - military engagements are, as Clauswitz put it, diplomacy through other means.

Our military is there because it helps us forward our interests - and we have a lot of political and economic interests in that region. It is irrelevant if we are currently fighting a war there or not - our presence helps us achieve certain non-military objectives and so we continue to maintain it.

The Arabs may have gotten closer to Israel but that doesn't mean that our relationship with them has to end. We are closer to the Saudis and the Arabs for reasons other than Israel as well - and saying we should end our alliance with them because they have improved relationship with Israel seems to ignore the reality of our deeper relationship.

Both the Turks and the Chinese have had relations with Israel, and yet we are closer than ever with both of them. So why the different attitude towards the Arabs?

With regards to the Arab Iran issue - we haven't been asked to invade Iran yet - and even if we were - we will be free to chose according to our interests. We've always maintained that our forces will defend the territorial integrity of our allies in a defensive war - so if we don't invade Iran at their behest we'd still be within our officially stated commitment. I don't really see the problem there.

If we leave our Arab allies - who do actually help us with money whenever we need it - it would leave the door wide open for someone else - possibly a party we may not like - to come fill in the role we abandon.

Lastly, imagine how incredibly stupid we'd have to be to leave our long standing close allies - who bailed us out not more than year ago with hard cash (in addition to countless other times) - simply because they gave our enemy a medal or something. That would indeed be a greater gift to our enemy than any award the Arabs could ever give.


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[PakSword]

Palestine is not our problem its arab israel issue .

Kashmir is also not an Arab problem.

 

[Khafee]

There was no hate.. instead there was this:
India was the first non-Arab country to recognize Palestine..

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

READ before replying please.


The discussion is purely based on MILITARY matters.


Can you name me any entity Pakistani-GCC military alliance perceived to be a threat?? What it is achieving in this current geopolitical land space? You got an enemy 7 times bigger then you with whom you have fight a war over Kashmir, not matter of if but when. Where your focus should be, including your men and resources? Do you have enough in tank to fight your own wars yet at the same time commit to some old and now defunct security threats in GCC???




Your issues with Israel got nothing to with Arabs or Palestine for the matter. When you lot will grow up ?

My dear Pak,

Thankyou for you post.

Of course, I respect your perspective and conclusion you drew based on your unique understanding. Fair.

AS I have mentioned somewhere else we live in a HybridWorld and we fight the hollow GanguTerroristArmy with our HybridStruggle.

We can fight with means, men and machines we have. That is how our calucations should be. But that is the worst case scenario in Our Strategic Planning.

And it depends totally on ourselves... if we bring ourselves to such a direstrait. A kind of self imposed curfew!

If I may invite you to revisit my post again...and see how we can advance our means and machines... our men remain the same... so that this hollow monster that we have created in our minds... this myth of ShooperPauer... with faked GDP numbers...

We do forget sometimes that the net industrial output of the same ShooperPauer is less than a coastal province of China. Today our Chinese Friends are in twon... Means, Men and Machines...

Now getting oursleves robbed off opportunities that we can create based on our deep strategic state to state relations would be suicidal perhaps. Should we let 72 years of our strategic relationship with ME countries go to waste... put it on silver plate and hand over to Ganguz?

Just as a hint ... do you know that our Ra'ad had a lot of help from our strategic partner from GCC.. one in particular.... I shall leave it at that...

Look at the hollow TerroristGanguArmy (7 times in size... ShooperEconomy and all that jazz...) .... below is an example of expanding our Means ....and Machines.... I just wish PMIK hops on Pak1 this night!

 

[Khafee]

There was no hate.. instead there was this:
India was the first non-Arab country to recognize Palestine..

Tell them about how this guy left behind US$3bn in inheritance. Money he got from the GCC, and should have been spent on Palestinians, but will light up his grave with hell fire for eternity.

 

[PakSword]

That is how everyone calls it.. the Arab-Israeli conflict..
Only when Qods is involved it becomes A Muslim issue..

Not only quds bro... Anywhere Muslims are in distress, it becomes a Muslim issue.

 

[Hassan90]

Kashmir is also not an Arab problem.

Yep let's invite Netanyahu for a medals like these shaikhdoms, what do you say? You cant talk good of these illigitimate regimes going out of their way to take side of mushriks to pakistan not even recognizing israel . Its crystel clear as to which side they are.

 

[surya kiran]

Anywhere Muslims are in distress, it becomes a Muslim issue.

What about Uighurs? Where does that stand?

 

[PakSword]

What about Uighurs? Where does that stand?

My stand is with Muslims... Always

Sorry, actually my religion teaches me that I should help oppressed regardless of their religion. What does your religion teach you?

 

[kshaib]

IT IS TIME TO SHOWS THEM, WE ARE PAKISTANI. DONOT TRUST ARABS, THEY ARE BULLSHIT.
YIME WILL COME, WHEN THEY WILL IN TROUBLE, THEN , PAKISTAN HAS TO DECEIDE. SHALL
PAKISTAN HELP THEM OR NOT, PAKISTAN WITH HELP OF CHINIA, FIGHT ANY THOSEE WANT TO TRY US, ONEDAY PAKISTAN WILL BE SUPER POWER, INSHA=ALLAHA. LOVE BY ALLAHA.
ALLAHA CREAT PAKISTAN FOR PURPUSE, WAIT AND SEE INSHA-ALLAHA. LOVE TO ALLAHA.

 

[TNT]

Just in previous thread everyone is crying about economy and then these delusion ppl want to act as if they are a european country lolz..

 

[925boy]

Palestine is not our problem its arab israel issue .

Do you also think Arabs are saying this about Kashmir- "Kashmir is not our problem its India Pakistan issue"?

That is how everyone calls it.. the Arab-Israeli conflict..

"THis is how everyone calls it" = classic example of fallacy by numbers. Because everyone calls A B doesnt mean it is correct. Also ,i thought Muslims care about Muslims under oppression, suffering and struggle around the world? Or do you get selective amnesia based on the competing interests you care more about? Like Muslims forgot Uighurs because they didnt want to threaten business and money interests with China? or you forgot Palestinians are Muslim because GCC prefers to keep relations with Israelis good instead? Or GCC forgot Kashmir because relations with India were more important?

Only when Qods is involved it becomes A Muslim issue..

When you're looking for excuses, they are never hard to find. Now you've decided to get "specific" about the red line but even Trump recently handed full control of Qods to Israel and what have you guys done about it then?

What about Uighurs? Where does that stand?

YUAN. end of story.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

My dear Pak,

Thankyou for you post.

Of course, I respect your perspective and conclusion you drew based on your unique understanding. Fair.

AS I have mentioned somewhere else we live in a HybridWorld and we fight the hollow GanguTerroristArmy with our HybridStruggle.

We can fight with means, men and machines we have. That is how our calucations should be. But that is the worst case scenario in Our Strategic Planning.

And it depends totally on ourselves... if we bring ourselves to such a direstrait. A kind of self imposed curfew!

If I may invite you to revisit my post again...and see how we can advance our means and machines... our men remain the same... so that this hollow monster that we have created in our minds... this myth of ShooperPauer... with faked GDP numbers...

We do forget sometimes that the net industrial output of the same ShooperPauer is less than a coastal province of China. Today our Chinese Friends are in twon... Means, Men and Machines...

Now getting oursleves robbed off opportunities that we can create based on our deep strategic state to state relations would be suicidal perhaps. Should we let 72 years of our strategic relationship with ME countries go to waste... put it on silver plate and hand over to Ganguz?

Just as a hint ... do you know that our Ra'ad had a lot of help from our strategic partner from GCC.. one in particular.... I shall leave it at that...

Look at the hollow TerroristGanguArmy (7 times in size... ShooperEconomy and all that jazz...) .... below is an example of expanding our Means ....and Machines.... I just wish PMIK hops on Pak1 this night!

With all due respect, I see Pakistan efforts and investment in GCC, as things stands, coming to a point of diminishing returns. To put it simply, it's not worth it anymore. These fkers are used by yanks to blackmail Pakistan when direct threats from 001 number are not working.

Allow me to break it down. First from GCC perspective. Their only security threat, according to their own threat perception is coming from Iran and her proxies. Isreal is now their best buddies. Pakistan cannot get involved with Iran on behalf of GCC, we got no dog in this fight and rightly so. So why GCC would need Pakistan security cooperation? The building block of this relation was based on threats from Israel. Now if our men are their to suppress their own people so these fat arses can shag blonde bimbos in their yachts in Monaco, like we did in Bahrain, and then to see they spread red carpet and honour our mortal enemy right bang in the middle of an issue which is our absolute red line, I am sorry, the sooner we get out of this , the better. In UAE, for every Arab, there are three rats anyway. It's a lost cause. Let them have their honey moon with curry munches, soon they will have no country to rule over anyway, as just today Trump did another somersault and invited Rouhani for a meeting,leaving these arrogant GCC crap peeing in their pants. They will get their "Arab spring" sooner then expected from the same Zionists they are sticking in their nose into and smelling their bottoms.

As for Pakistan, the way things are going in our immediate region , we have left with no choice but to tightly embrace our already strategic alliance with China. This is exactly what is happening as we speak. With GCC on the Zionists side, the centrifugal forces will eventually leave us with no option but to ditch GCC. And here, I would strongly advise to pay head to what Dr Mahatir said about having this grouping of Pakistan, Turkey and Malaysia. No sectarian non sense, no luggage to carry, plenty to offer to each other. GCC is becoming a headache for Pakistan. It's like a constantly nagging wife which will moan about you and leave no opportunity to humiliate you infront of your in laws, which you hate. Divorce is the only way out.

 

[V. Makarov]

What I make of the situation is that, The flag-bearers of the GCC foreign policy i.e UAE and Saudi Arabia, have come to realize, that Pakistan will be of little importance in the quickly maturing regional strategic balance of the Middle East.

The GCC has found cooperation with Israel very helpful to tackle the Iran problem because Iran is the only thing that is on their minds right now. After Pakistan excused from the Yemen assault, GCC did not work hard to find a way to neutralize the Iran threat : in the form of friendship and cordial relations with Israel.

It is surprising that the place that Pakistan had in the GCC is slowly being replaced by not India but Israel! and slowly more and more Arab countries are getting comfortable with it.

Israel is Pounding Iran backed militias based in Lebanon that were helping the Palestinians and guess what the foreign minister of Bahrain had to say : 'Israel striking Iran targets is nothing but 'self defence'. See for your self=

https://www.timesofisrael.com/appea...in-says-strikes-on-iran-targets-self-defense/

Netanyahu is visiting GCC countries left and right and the arabs are appeasing Israel more and more =

I am not sure whether we should have gone forward with the Yemen offensive but the effects of the Pakistan's 'Betrayal' (as they call it) are extremely evident in the form of their stance on Kashmir, and their plans of a long term alliance with Israel and pleasant relations with India.

Pakistan's foreign policy has reduced Pakistan to a backup plan for the GCC and the GCC have come up with a cunning plan that might even work for them better as compared to Pakistan.

The GCC has been a good friend to us from the very start, they have helped us with our nuclear program, bailed us out multiple times, and helped our relations with USA when the relations were cold, but this one time Pakistan had to excuse because our own internal security and neighborly relations were at stake. This excuse ,however, regardless of our own problems, will eventually lead to a divorce between Pakistan and the GCC for at least until Iran is neutralized.

THE WAY FORWARD: Pakistan needs not to initiate any reduction in ties with the GCC just because they are not as strong in their stance against Indian atrocities in Kashmir. Good ties are still to benefit Pakistan.
We will just have to wait patiently and see how things fold between Pakistan and India and see how the GCC evolves her stance on Kashmir because to them, Kashmir is still not that much of a serious situation. I predict that the Kashmir situation will get serious in the coming few months much to the disappointment of the GCC.

do we really need boots on ground to deal with a scenario where Israel might have some lunatic ideas

The only boots on ground I see in the future are of the Israelis on the GCC to help them overcome the trembling fear for the Persians.
And as far as the protection of Hijaz is concerned, I think Israel will still need another few decades to be in a position to even think about it.

 

[rak_987]

Rofl the OP feels there is some Military cooperation between GCC and Pakistan, yes treaties are there. Pakistani instructors train cadets of GCC, but we have largely excused ourselves from them when Iran comes in the fray. Our shia liberals lobbying and parliament resolution on Yemen in 2015 was badly received by UAE and they warned of the retaliation which they did by their ambassador to india statement and handing over medal to that hindoo nazi terrorist.
Pakistan Govt. needs to respond to UAE's stupid behavior in a mature manner.

We need to show the world its no business as usual by cutting off our airspace to India, the transit trade and walking out of Simla accord 1972.