Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

[leonblack08]

@PAKISTANFOREVER is a patriot and he is loved by us. Please do not insult our brother.

As for the others who wish to secularize Pakistan, it is a pipedream at best.

Do you see me quoting him? Why are you assuming I am insulting him?

 

[The Maverick]

We are Pakistan's First ....

It is necessary now as never before to emphasize our identity.

We are Pakistanis, dwellers of Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan, Punjab and Azad Kashmir. We are defined by a common cultural thread of Saraiki linking our provinces and our peoples.
Ours is an ancient culture going back to the dawn of civilization established in the Indus River Valley 5400 years ago. We have evolved over the centuries absorbing other cultures and religions.

Over the last 50 years our cultural and national identity has been transformed and redefined.
We are redefining our cultural traditions to as they were centuries back with deep roots to Central Asia and the Middle East. In dress, language, and cuisine we are now different than we were 50 years back. Few nations in the world have culturally transformed so rapidly.

To further redefine it is necessary to emphasize who we are NOT...
Pakistanis are Not :

1. "Indian" Muslims - We are not part of "India", and yes a majority of our
population is Muslim, but religion is not the only defining feature of our national
identity.
We have no connection with the Muslim population of "India" as defined by its
territory today.

2. "West" Pakistanis - There is no "East" or "West" Pakistan but simply Pakistan.


3. "South" Asians- Pakistanis are Asians and our population similarity is with West or Central
Asia.

What do PDF members think?

Are the other South Asian populations at all relevant to us?

your cuisine your language and dress is nothing like central Asia, and even middle east.

mid east is,Arabic
pakistan is not Arabic
you never hear a central.asian or Iranian suggest you are even remotely similar in culture.
these people look completely different. speak a different language and cook and eat in their own way
central Asians look half chinease,and other half Russian mix.

majority population in pakistan is,punjabi
I believe so .

as,for selling your unique culture this is something you have struggled,at up to now .
hooking on to middle east or central.asia,will not suffice I.think .you need to promote the word,Pakistani a lot more

 

[Baibars_1260]

your cuisine your language and dress is nothing like central Asia, and even middle east.

mid east is,Arabic
pakistan is not Arabic
you never hear a central.asian or Iranian suggest you are even remotely similar in culture.
these people look completely different. speak a different language and cook and eat in their own way
central Asians look half chinease,and other half Russian mix.

majority population in pakistan is,punjabi
I believe so .

as,for selling your unique culture this is something you have struggled,at up to now .
hooking on to middle east or central.asia,will not suffice I.think .you need to promote the word,Pakistani a lot more

Look at the picture of the Swati and Kalash people below and let me have your comments.

 

[The Maverick]

Look at the picture of the Swati and Kalash people below and let me have your comments.

View attachment 722716View attachment 722717

like 0.05 percent lol

 

[The Maverick]

like 0.05 percent lol

you have 220 million Pakistanis
120 million punjabi

like 0.05 percent lol

4000 people in Kalashi world

The remaining 219 million look like these

There are some that look like this

one in blue is really nice

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Do you see me quoting him? Why are you assuming I am insulting him?

My bad then. I assumed because he is the OP and first to use Pakistani First in this thread.

 

[ThunderCat]

So @Baibars_1260 , looks like you guys will continue to talk in Urdu and thus the linguistic connection with India will continue

What "linguistic connection?" We also speak English mutually, does that gives us a "linguistic connection?"

you have 220 million Pakistanis
120 million punjabi
4000 people in Kalashi world

The remaining 219 million look like these

Not sure. Many ethnic groups in the Northern Areas are white looking, not to mention KP and many Northern Punjabis.

Salam, did you make this brother?

It is a great video, however I do not think the bit about religion is unrealistic. Pakistan is one of the most conservative Islamic nations in the world, and pretty homogeneous as 97% of the society is Muslim.

We have to work to bring in all the Islamic firqe together. Out focus should be religious and cultural cohesion. I do like the linguistic and racial stuff in the video. Thanks for sharing.

Totally disagree. Religious conservatism has made Pakistan a very confused and intolerant society not to mention turn us into Arab worshipers. Only racial nationalism can help us now.

 

[ThunderCat]

your cuisine your language and dress is nothing like central Asia, and even middle east.

mid east is,Arabic
pakistan is not Arabic
you never hear a central.asian or Iranian suggest you are even remotely similar in culture.
these people look completely different. speak a different language and cook and eat in their own way
central Asians look half chinease,and other half Russian mix.

majority population in pakistan is,punjabi
I believe so .

as,for selling your unique culture this is something you have struggled,at up to now .
hooking on to middle east or central.asia,will not suffice I.think .you need to promote the word,Pakistani a lot more

Central Asians do not look Chinese, they look Mongolian/Siberian. Different phenotypes. The reason why Central Asians have light eyes/hair is because they descend from Turkic nomads who absorbed the DNA of the previous inhabitants of Central Asia whom were white Caucasoid, mostly Iranic speaking.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

your cuisine your language and dress is nothing like central Asia, and even middle east.

mid east is,Arabic
pakistan is not Arabic
you never hear a central.asian or Iranian suggest you are even remotely similar in culture.
these people look completely different. speak a different language and cook and eat in their own way
central Asians look half chinease,and other half Russian mix.

majority population in pakistan is,punjabi
I believe so .

as,for selling your unique culture this is something you have struggled,at up to now .
hooking on to middle east or central.asia,will not suffice I.think .you need to promote the word,Pakistani a lot more

Our culture is predominantly mughalai culture which is an extension of central Asian culture mixed with many indigenous traditions.
Our dress shalwar kameez was never indigenous, the origin of kameez is uygur whereas shalwar was part of ancient persian dresses that spread to the whole central asia.
Our food is primarily bread (naan/chapati) with different stews that you call curry in india but for us it's called 'chorba', another central Asian origin.Apart from that we have a wide variety of kebabs and other barbecued items most of which have always been here and consumed.

Middle east is not just arab but also persian, turkish, kurd and north african.
Pakistani baluch region is traditionally considered part of middle east.Karachi (the most populated city) is geographically baluch.
Our other major city Lahore is a history marvel, mostly stretching from medieval times upto independence. That's enough to get the mughlai footprint become part of local dna.
Pakistan lies on the crossroads of central asia and south asia separated by indus. So Pakistan enjoys both labels as a region.

Pakistan culture is very diverse because we have a unique thing which no other country in the world has ..We have the steepest gradient , from k2 summit to sea level mangroves of thatta we have all the 12 weathers 5 climates and different peoples..we have the oldest civilization.
we have negroid(siddi), caucasian(nurestani), mongoloid( GB and lately hazarajat) ,australasian(brahvi and bengali)..
Our culture has many faces , outsiders mostly identify us by the punjabi and pashtun aspect only

 

[magra]

What "linguistic connection?" We also speak English mutually, does that gives us a "linguistic connection?"

How many Pakistanis and Indians are fluent or comfortable in English. I am talking about the masses.
And even among those of us who are good in English, we still like to talk in Hindi / Urdu given a chance.

 

[Baibars_1260]

How many Pakistanis and Indians are fluent or comfortable in English. I am talking about the masses.
And even among those of us who are good in English, we still like to talk in Hindi / Urdu given a chance.

South of the Vindhyas upper-middle class educated Indians talk to their Southern counterparts only in English. At the rural level the people can't understand each other. Were a minimal educated laborer from Bihar knowing only Hindi were to be transplanted into rural Tamil Nadu it would be hard for that person to communicate.

Which is why the Indian parliament has translators and Indian lawmakers wear headphones ; often wrenched off their heads and hurled at one another when the arguments get too intense. Mercifully in Pakistan we don't have that problem though at our National Assembly our lawmakers do hurl insults.

So far as the masses of India and Pakistan are concerned, Northern India in a belt comprising Haryana, Himachal, Punjab, Jammu, Delhi, Western Uttar Pradesh, Western Rajasthan would be able to communicate with their counterparts in a belt ranging from Sialkot to Multan, and Tharparkar about 100 km deep.
The communication would be verbal, as no Indians ( discounting a tiny minority Muslim population ) can read the Urdu script, and no Pakistanis ( discounting a tiny minority Hindu population) can read the Hindi Devnagari script.
Even the conversation has to be small talk . There is no literary, academic or cultural exchange. The vocabulary has changed.
It wasn't always like that. Literary persons in pre-partition Pakistan and India like Jagan Nath "Azad" and Raghupati Sahay "Firaq" provided a cultural and linguistic bridge.

Political divisions do cause culture and language to change. Bangladesh for example is developing a different version of the Bengali language and even though the script is the same as the West Bengali version the vocabulary has changed somewhat. Still an average minimally literate West Bengali person can get around in Bangladesh very easily unhindered by script or language. A Bangladeshi professor of Bengali could teach a Bengali language class in Kolkata.

That is not the linguistic synergy today between India and Pakistan.

As a comparison: A Hindi educated upperclass person from Nainital Uttarakhand if stranded in Murree would be able to move around fairly easily, but would be unable to read the script and read road signs and be severely hindered otherwise . This would not have been the case 73 years back.

When Pakistan's National Poet wrote: Naya Shivalaya calling for unity, at that time every one could understand what he wrote and what Shivalaya meant . To most Pakistanis today, that word is unintelligible. Indian's would understand if some one read the poem to them, but they can't read the script. Indian Prime Minister Man Mohan Singh quoted a line from the poem in 1993 announcing a new economic policy and what he said was nonsense to all his fellow lawmakers in the Parliament.

Elsewhere I had discussed the need for at least a small portion of Pakistani linguists to study Hindi in the Devanagari script. The generation that could read Hindi in Pakistan has died off.

Hindi language resources in Pakistan, Why important.

It is extremely important to keep our eyes and ears open on the enemy. Language resources are a vital tool to know what the enemy is thinking. Apart from the obvious intelligence requirements there is a long term strategic advantage in monitoring enemy mass media and internal propaganda which...

defence.pk

 

[ThunderCat]

How many Pakistanis and Indians are fluent or comfortable in English. I am talking about the masses.
And even among those of us who are good in English, we still like to talk in Hindi / Urdu given a chance.

My point is it's another mutually inherited language of both countries.

 

[magra]

My point is it's another mutually inherited language of both countries.

True, but our movies, entertainment, media etc are generally not in English but in Hindi / Urdu.

If, tomorrow, you adopt lets say Saraiki as your national language and start making your dramas in that and convert all your news channels into Saraiki language, most Indians wont understand those.

 

[peagle]

Look at the picture of the Swati and Kalash people below and let me have your comments.

View attachment 722716View attachment 722717

I thought I was replying to @themaverick

The Kalash are from the extreme north.

My ex-girlfriend had blue eyes, originally from just west of Islamabad in KPK province, my brother had brown-blondish hair when he was younger but changed with age. There are people in my family with light coloured eyes. We are from North Punjab with Kashmir ancestry but now mixed. I could go on.

Please do not make large vague conclusions based on simple logic. Pakistan has a lot of gene diversity because it straddles regions with different cultural heritage, which has provided Pakistan with the uniqueness it has inherited. It's an inescapable fact.

Pakistan is uniquely different, but also the same as its neighbours because of its inheritance from those neighbours.

you have 220 million Pakistanis
120 million punjabi

4000 people in Kalashi world

The remaining 219 million look like these

Please see my above message,
it's very well searching google, but reality can be different, which in this case, it is.

 

[TMA]

This may have been true in the 1950s for Pakistan. Today Pakistan is changing right before our eyes, and our only regret is it should have been faster. Islam is being moved into personal context, from national.
The national identity is forged.

1. Pakistan today has a West Asian, Central Asian focus. The South Asian element is fading away. The faster it fades away the better.

2. Pakistan will sooner or later revert to its Ghurid Khorasan identity, that it had for centuries.

A federation with Afghanistan is very likely with CPEC taking off.
Afghanistan needs an access to
the sea.
The cultural impact of the federation will be far reaching,
Opening the Iran border completely will result in further intermingling .
If the BRI initiative works then we will be interacting with Uzbekistan as well.
By learning Turkish, Farsi and Pashto and welcoming visitors we impact our identity.

That South Asian element is correlated with Urdu. Pakistan should have chosen Dari/Persian but alas.
Afghanistan needs a lot of work before a federation can happen. Anti-Pakistanism needs to finish in Afghanistan. I don't think its going anywhere soon.
But Islam is indispensable. Get rid of Islam and bye bye Pakistan.