Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

[Surya 1]

We are Pakistan's First ....

It is necessary now as never before to emphasize our identity.

We are Pakistanis, dwellers of Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan, Punjab and Azad Kashmir. We are defined by a common cultural thread of Saraiki linking our provinces and our peoples.
Ours is an ancient culture going back to the dawn of civilization established in the Indus River Valley 5400 years ago. We have evolved over the centuries absorbing other cultures and religions.

Over the last 50 years our cultural and national identity has been transformed and redefined.
We are redefining our cultural traditions to as they were centuries back with deep roots to Central Asia and the Middle East. In dress, language, and cuisine we are now different than we were 50 years back. Few nations in the world have culturally transformed so rapidly.

To further redefine it is necessary to emphasize who we are NOT...
Pakistanis are Not :

1. "Indian" Muslims - We are not part of "India", and yes a majority of our
population is Muslim, but religion is not the only defining feature of our national
identity.
We have no connection with the Muslim population of "India" as defined by its
territory today.

2. "West" Pakistanis - There is no "East" or "West" Pakistan but simply Pakistan.


3. "South" Asians- Pakistanis are Asians and our population similarity is with West or Central
Asia.

What do PDF members think?

Are the other South Asian populations at all relevant to us?

But Islamic Ideology has a direct confrontation with Nationalism. How youd you reconcile that. Do you want to make your religious identity secondary?

 

[Itachi]

But Islamic Ideology has a direct confrontation with Nationalism. How youd you reconcile that. Do you want to make your religious ideology secondary?

@Baibars_1260 He asked a good question. Awaiting your reply.

 

[Indos]

So why Pakistan? Why not ask the Ale Saud to come over and rule us?
That will save us from the Hindu culture. " Saudi " Arabia is a country that rules solely by the Quran and Sunnah and has no Western Style Constitution. So why don't we adopt that style of Governance.
General Zia ul Haq declared a Nizam e Mustafa but depended on Western established courts to carry out his commands and depended on Western aid to fight the godless communists in Afghanistan.
Why ?
Why Pakistan?

To make it clearer, I think you should disclose your religion, are you Sunni/Shiah Muslim, Ahmadiyah, Hindu, or Christian ?

 

[Itachi]

To make it clearer, I think you should disclose your religion, are you Sunni/Shiah Muslim, Ahmadiyah, Hindu, or Christian ?

The most important question of all.....I suspect he's all of the above.

 

[Indos]

But Islamic Ideology has a direct confrontation with Nationalism. How youd you reconcile that. Do you want to make your religious identity secondary?

LOL Nope. Islam acknowledge Nation. I dont buy Hizbutahir or ISIS propaganda saying that there should be one Islamic country in the world. Muslim can still act together by making Muslim nations NATO.

Quran:

Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you.Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.(49:13)

Religion is the first, you need to look on my post on the first page where Indonesian Armed Force even said it in a formal event, officer graduation Day last year.

 

[Surya 1]

LOL Nope. Islam acknowledge Nation. I dont buy Hizbutahir or ISIS propaganda saying that there should be one Islamic country in the world. Muslim can still act together by making Muslim nations NATO.

Does this mean that you are Pakistani first and Muslim next or is it otherwise?

 

[W.11]

We are Pakistan's First ....

It is necessary now as never before to emphasize our identity.

We are Pakistanis, dwellers of Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan, Punjab and Azad Kashmir. We are defined by a common cultural thread of Saraiki linking our provinces and our peoples.
Ours is an ancient culture going back to the dawn of civilization established in the Indus River Valley 5400 years ago. We have evolved over the centuries absorbing other cultures and religions.

Over the last 50 years our cultural and national identity has been transformed and redefined.
We are redefining our cultural traditions to as they were centuries back with deep roots to Central Asia and the Middle East. In dress, language, and cuisine we are now different than we were 50 years back. Few nations in the world have culturally transformed so rapidly.

To further redefine it is necessary to emphasize who we are NOT...
Pakistanis are Not :

1. "Indian" Muslims - We are not part of "India", and yes a majority of our
population is Muslim, but religion is not the only defining feature of our national
identity.
We have no connection with the Muslim population of "India" as defined by its
territory today.

2. "West" Pakistanis - There is no "East" or "West" Pakistan but simply Pakistan.


3. "South" Asians- Pakistanis are Asians and our population similarity is with West or Central
Asia.

What do PDF members think?

Are the other South Asian populations at all relevant to us?

the inferiority complex is quite visible here

 

[Indos]

Does this mean that you are Pakistani first and Muslim next or is it otherwise?

Helping Pakistan means helping Islam as well

 

[Surya 1]

Helping Pakistan means helping Islam as well

Is Pakistan Islam synonym. Opposing Pakistan means opposing Islam. If some Arab country bans Pakistanis means they ban Islam? If they send Pakistanis mean they are rejecting Islam?

 

[Itachi]

Is Pakistan Islam synonym. Opposing Pakistan means opposing Islam. If some Arab country bans Pakistanis means they ban Islam? If they send Pakistanis mean they are rejecting Islam?

You're thinking too hard kid. Helping Pakistan is helping Islam since that is what Islam preaches...

 

[Surya 1]

elping Pakistan is helping Islam since that is what Islam preaches...

I doubt that. When Islam came, Pakistan was not in existence.

 

[Itachi]

I doubt that. When Islam came, Pakistan was not in existence.

So??

While nationalism is frowned upon, Islam respects boundaries. Think about that...

 

[Baibars_1260]

Your question and thoughts are very wrong...

Shows that I shouldn't waste my time with you....just a hint. Islam doesn't belong to Arabs or non-Arabs.

Never said that. According to the traditionalists Islam "belongs" to those who are ruled or rule solely by the Quran and Sunnah.
Does Saudi Arabia have a western style constitution? They do all their work in Arabic as Orya Maqbool Jan wants them to do.
So are they leading the world in fundamental research?

Get out of this sick mentality. Islam belongs to whoever follows it. Currently, the best Muslims are Afghans, Chechens and some Turks. The worst being Arabs, followed by Pakistanis and the South East Asian Muslims...

So Arabs and Pakistanis are the worst Muslims ? Hmmmm...The Bangladeshis would agree with you ( at least so far as Pakistan is concerned).
Afghan's are the best Muslims? Which Afghans ? TTP, Hamid Karzai, Abdur Rashid Dostum, Gulbuddin Himetyar... All lovers of the "poppy fields". Very Islamic those poppy fields.

You're also looking to the future with the lens of the past. Don't.
The future is very different and the Bastion of Islam will be those who work towards it. It might take, 10, 20 or 50 years but someone will get there.

I thought the topic of this thread was Pakistani Nationalism and Pakistani identity rather than future of Islam. But since you raised this topic, what is the future of Islam?

Because only Israel & Pakistan have been made on the basis of religion. Israeli constitution is their holy book. They have the mercy and help of Allah.

Pakistan was made on basis of religion? The original Pakistan resolution in 1940 called for a Homeland for the Muslims of India. It was intended to be secular state.

Likewise Israel was intended to be a Homeland for the Jews, but a secular state. Israel's constitution is not the holy book. It has a secular constitution though now somewhat modified.

In fact Israel was so impressed with the similarities of the founding of Pakistan and Israel ( both were founded in the aftermath of a mass murder Holocaust) that Israel reached out to Pakistan offering recognition and cooperation in 1948 immediately after it was established. Don't know what mercy there is on that nation. There has not been a day of peace for it since it was established.

Other states founded on the basis of religion.
Nepal is a declared Hindu state
U.K. Is a declared Christian country with an official Church of England.
Saudi Arabia has no constitution and is governed by the laws of the holy book.

Whereas so called "Muslims" will get their *** whopped by them if they don't follow the Sunnah, the Shariyat or Islam.

There are 121 nations in the world and of the top 20 military and economic powers, only one Saudi Arabia follows the Sunnah and Shariah. The other 19 are doing fine. Saudi Arabia is getting its ****s whooped in Yemen.

 

[Itachi]

Never said that. According to the traditionalists Islam "belongs" to those who are ruled or rule solely by the Quran and Sunnah.
Does Saudi Arabia have a western style constitution? They do all their work in Arabic as Orya Maqbool Jan wants them to do.
So are they leading the world in fundamental research?



So Arabs and Pakistanis are the worst Muslims ? Hmmmm...The Bangladeshis would agree with you ( at least so far as Pakistan is concerned).
Afghan's are the besr Muslims? Which Afghans ? TTP, Hamid Karzai, Abdur Rashid Dostum, Gulbuddin Himetyar... All lovers of the "poppy fields". Very Islamic those poppy fields.




I thought the topic of this thread was Pakistani Nationalism and Pakistani identity rather than future of Islam. But since you raised this topic, what is the future of Islam?



Pakistan was made on basis of religion? The original Pakistan resolution in 1940 called for a Homeland for the Muslims of India. It was intended to be secular state.

Likewise Israel was intended to be a Homeland for the Jews, but a secular state. Israel's constitution is not the holy book. It has a secular constitution though now somewhat modified.

In fact Israel was so impressed with the similarities of the founding of Pakistan and Israel ( both were founded in the aftermath of a mass murder Holocaust) that Israel reached out to Pakistan offering recognition and cooperation in 1948 immediately after it was established. Don't know what mercy there is on that nation. There has not been a day of peace for it since it was established.

Other states founded on the basis of religion.
Nepal is a declared Hindu state
U.K. Is a declared Christian country with an official Church of England.
Saudi Arabia has no constitution and is governed by the laws of the holy book.




There are 121 nations in the world and of the top 20 military and economic powers, only one Saudi Arabia follows the Sunnah and Shariah. The other 19 are doing fine. Saudi Arabia is getting its ****s whooped in Yemen.

I'm sure we both know why Saudi Arabia doesn't lead the Muslims.....hint...it's for Saudis....right there in the name...

How can Allah make them lead anyone lol??

I'm not gonna reply to rest of your post. All I have to say is that without Islam, Pakistan will face another 70 years of humiliation. If you're set on that path, then good luck.

Afghan's are the besr Muslims? Which Afghans ? TTP, Hamid Karzai, Abdur Rashid Dostum, Gulbuddin Himetyar... All lovers of the "poppy fields". Very Islamic those poppy fields.

Afghan Taliban. Don't be dumb now...

They also destroyed a lot of those poppy fields. The US army defends such fields though.

 

[Baibars_1260]

the inferiority complex is quite visible here

In fact it is a superiority complex... and it should be. Very few nations in the world have shown the resilience of this region. 5400 years. Faced, natural disasters, invasions, foreign rule.
We survived and will survive.