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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

F-16V is no longer the most capable F-16.

We are getting the following major upgrades as part of the package

1) Engine upgrades upto 12000 hours
2) An AESA radar that can scan in a 360-degree sphere - horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors to track up to 20-targets at any time
3) Infrared Search and Track (IRST) that can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment

Which radar on a fighter have 360 degree coverage??

I don't think that kind of upgrade US will offer Pakistan.

If your statement is true then we should ask ourselves a question, what we have sold to US now??
 
Source please as this is big statement.
Also that means more capable bird then F-16V which seems not possible.
68f6xn.jpg
 
F-16V is no longer the most capable F-16.

We are getting the following major upgrades as part of the package

1) Engine upgrades upto 12000 hours
2) An AESA radar that can scan in a 360-degree sphere - horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors to track up to 20-targets at any time
3) Infrared Search and Track (IRST) that can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment

Is this 360 degree radar fixed on top of the F16 fuselage like an AWACS ? 😀:D
 
Which radar on a fighter have 360 degree coverage??

I don't think that kind of upgrade US will offer Pakistan.

If your statement is true then we should ask ourselves a question, what we have sold to US now??


Is this 360 degree radar fixed on top of the F16 fuselage like an AWACS ? 😀:D


Air Force orders more advanced F-16 jet fighter SABR AESA radar avionics systems from Northrop Grumman​

July 26, 2022
APG-83 AESA fire-control scalable agile-beam radar (SABR) integrates with the F-16’s structural, power, and cooling without aircraft modification.
John Keller

Aesa Radar 26 July 2022


WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB, Ohio – U.S. Air Force aerial warfare experts are ordering additional modern active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for F-16 jet fighter aircraft under terms of an $88.2 million order announced Friday.
Officials of the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Fighter Bomber Directorate, F-16 Division, at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, are asking the Northrop Grumman Corp. Mission Systems segment in Linthicum Heights, Md., for 31 production radars and spare parts.
The APG-83 AESA fire-control scalable agile-beam radar (SABR) integrates within the F-16’s structural, power, and cooling constraints without Group A aircraft modification, Northrop Grumman officials say. The company leverages technology developed for the APG-77 and APG-81 radar systems on the U.S. F-22 and F-35 combat aircraft.
In a 2013 competition, Lockheed Martin Corp., the F-16 manufacturer, selected the APG-83 as the AESA radar avionics for the F-16 modernization and update programs of the U.S. Air Force and Taiwan air force.

Related: Air Force orders eight new F-15EX jet fighter aircraft with advanced avionics, navigation systems, and radar
The bandwidth, speed, and agility of AESA radars enable legacy fighter aircraft like the F-16 to detect, track, and identify many targets quickly and at long ranges, and to operate in hostile electronic warfare (EW) environments.
Northrop Grumman is building APG-83 radar systems for global F-16 upgrades and new aircraft production, as well as for the U.S. Air National Guard. Northrop Grumman also has installed a production APG-83 SABR on a U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18C Hornet jet fighter-bomber, company officials say.
On this order Northrop Grumman will do the work in Linthicum Heights, Md., and should be finished by July 2025. For more information contact Northrop Grumman Mission Systems online at www.northropgrumman.com, or the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at www.aflcmc.af.mil.

 

Air Force orders more advanced F-16 jet fighter SABR AESA radar avionics systems from Northrop Grumman​

July 26, 2022
APG-83 AESA fire-control scalable agile-beam radar (SABR) integrates with the F-16’s structural, power, and cooling without aircraft modification.
John Keller

Aesa Radar 26 July 2022


WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB, Ohio – U.S. Air Force aerial warfare experts are ordering additional modern active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for F-16 jet fighter aircraft under terms of an $88.2 million order announced Friday.
Officials of the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Fighter Bomber Directorate, F-16 Division, at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, are asking the Northrop Grumman Corp. Mission Systems segment in Linthicum Heights, Md., for 31 production radars and spare parts.
The APG-83 AESA fire-control scalable agile-beam radar (SABR) integrates within the F-16’s structural, power, and cooling constraints without Group A aircraft modification, Northrop Grumman officials say. The company leverages technology developed for the APG-77 and APG-81 radar systems on the U.S. F-22 and F-35 combat aircraft.
In a 2013 competition, Lockheed Martin Corp., the F-16 manufacturer, selected the APG-83 as the AESA radar avionics for the F-16 modernization and update programs of the U.S. Air Force and Taiwan air force.

Related: Air Force orders eight new F-15EX jet fighter aircraft with advanced avionics, navigation systems, and radar
The bandwidth, speed, and agility of AESA radars enable legacy fighter aircraft like the F-16 to detect, track, and identify many targets quickly and at long ranges, and to operate in hostile electronic warfare (EW) environments.
Northrop Grumman is building APG-83 radar systems for global F-16 upgrades and new aircraft production, as well as for the U.S. Air National Guard. Northrop Grumman also has installed a production APG-83 SABR on a U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18C Hornet jet fighter-bomber, company officials say.
On this order Northrop Grumman will do the work in Linthicum Heights, Md., and should be finished by July 2025. For more information contact Northrop Grumman Mission Systems online at www.northropgrumman.com, or the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at www.aflcmc.af.mil.


Where it says that equipment is for Pakistan and radar have 360 degree coverage??

Only AWACS have 360 degree coverage no Fighter jet currently have that kind of radar.
 
Only AWACS have 360 degree coverage no Fighter jet currently have that kind of radar.

1662737459555.png




F-16s Fight Into 2040 with F-35 AESA Radar and Modernized Weapons
Credit the Service Life Extension Program which modernized F-16s
Lockheed Martin

By Kris Osborn - President & Editor-In-Chief, Warrior Maven
(Washington, D.C.) The Air Force is giving its 1970s-era F-16 fighter F-35 technology as part of a massive fleet-wide overhaul intended to improve targeting, attack precision and computer systems -- to extend the fighter’s combat life all the way into the 2040s.
It might be tough to imagine that today’s Air Force F-16 dates back as far as the 1970s, a circumstance which might lead some to wonder how the combat aircraft has sustained its combat relevance and performance capacity into the dynamic threat environment of the 2020s.

F-16 Service Life Extension Program​

The answer is actually quite extensive and goes back many years to the inception and preservation of an F-16 Service Life Extension Program which upgraded the upper wing skin and fittings, adjusted the bulkhead and canopy and gave the aircraft an F-35 Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA).
F-16 Lockheed Martin


Lockheed Martin F-16
Lockheed Martin

Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA)​

With AESA, the F-16 incorporated an entirely new ability to find, detect and track enemy threats at much greater ranges. The aim of the SLEP was to extend the flight time of F-16s from roughly six-to-seven thousand flight hours to 8,000 or more flight hours. On top of that, the service’s confidence in the upgrades have led to plan to have the F-16 fly all the way out to 12,000 hours.
The AESA radar, which Lockheed developers say can track up to 20-targets at one time, is a massive upgrade beyond the F-16s previous mechanically-scanned radar. By virtue of its ability to track multiple targets, the AESA radar can scan in a 360-degree sphere to include horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors.

Modernized Cockpit Avionics​

Not surprisingly, the F-16 has also in recent years received new cockpit avionics to include moving map displays, video in the cockpit. digital graphics screens and new target tracking systems.

On-Board Automation​

Upgraded F-16s also uses a high degree of increased on-board automation to free up pilot focus and workload. By automatically performing a range of important procedural functions independently, a pilot is then freed up to focus more intently on other mission critical tasks.
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F-16v​

Alongside the Air Force SLEP, Lockheed Martin has also been building a new F-16v variant, which continues to inspire allied interest around the globe. The F-16v also uses new computers and software as well as a high-definition cockpit display. The “v” model also adds a new data bus, electronic warfare suite, missile warning sensor and helmet mounted cueing system.
F-16v


The core of the F-16V configuration is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, a modern commercial off-the-shelf (COTS)-based avionics subsystem, a large-format, high-resolution display; and a high-volume, high-speed data bus.
Lockheed Martin
This upgraded F-16v technical foundation provided the technical starting point for Lockheed’s next-generation F-16 specifically built for India called the F-21.

F-21 with IRST Technology​

Not only does the F-21 incorporate AESA, but the jet also integrates a high-tech, next-generation targeting system called Infrared Search and Track (IRST) technology. IRST, which is used extensively in F/A-18 Super Hornets, is a passive, long-range sensor that searches for and detects infrared emissions.

F-21


Lockheed Martin, F-21
Lockheed Martin
Much like the AESA, the IRST can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment. As a passive, long-range sensor able to provide air-to-air targeting, IRST introduces new combat variables for the F-16.
In effect, while there are ultimately limits to how much an older aircraft can be upgraded, today’s F-16 is almost an entirely different airplane apart from keeping its basic airframe configuration.
-- Kris Osborn is the President of Warrior Maven and The Defense Editor of The National Interest --
Kris Osborn is the defense editor for the National Interest. Osborn previously served at the Pentagon as a Highly Qualified Expert with the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army—Acquisition, Logistics & Technology. Osborn has also worked as an anchor and on-air military specialist at national TV networks. He has appeared as a guest military expert on Fox News, MSNBC, The Military Channel, and The History Channel. He also has a Master's Degree in Comparative Literature from Columbia University.
Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven


Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven President
 
View attachment 877473



F-16s Fight Into 2040 with F-35 AESA Radar and Modernized Weapons
Credit the Service Life Extension Program which modernized F-16s
Lockheed Martin

By Kris Osborn - President & Editor-In-Chief, Warrior Maven
(Washington, D.C.) The Air Force is giving its 1970s-era F-16 fighter F-35 technology as part of a massive fleet-wide overhaul intended to improve targeting, attack precision and computer systems -- to extend the fighter’s combat life all the way into the 2040s.
It might be tough to imagine that today’s Air Force F-16 dates back as far as the 1970s, a circumstance which might lead some to wonder how the combat aircraft has sustained its combat relevance and performance capacity into the dynamic threat environment of the 2020s.

F-16 Service Life Extension Program​

The answer is actually quite extensive and goes back many years to the inception and preservation of an F-16 Service Life Extension Program which upgraded the upper wing skin and fittings, adjusted the bulkhead and canopy and gave the aircraft an F-35 Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA).
F-16 Lockheed Martin


Lockheed Martin F-16
Lockheed Martin

Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA)​

With AESA, the F-16 incorporated an entirely new ability to find, detect and track enemy threats at much greater ranges. The aim of the SLEP was to extend the flight time of F-16s from roughly six-to-seven thousand flight hours to 8,000 or more flight hours. On top of that, the service’s confidence in the upgrades have led to plan to have the F-16 fly all the way out to 12,000 hours.
The AESA radar, which Lockheed developers say can track up to 20-targets at one time, is a massive upgrade beyond the F-16s previous mechanically-scanned radar. By virtue of its ability to track multiple targets, the AESA radar can scan in a 360-degree sphere to include horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors.

Modernized Cockpit Avionics​

Not surprisingly, the F-16 has also in recent years received new cockpit avionics to include moving map displays, video in the cockpit. digital graphics screens and new target tracking systems.

On-Board Automation​

Upgraded F-16s also uses a high degree of increased on-board automation to free up pilot focus and workload. By automatically performing a range of important procedural functions independently, a pilot is then freed up to focus more intently on other mission critical tasks.
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F-16v​

Alongside the Air Force SLEP, Lockheed Martin has also been building a new F-16v variant, which continues to inspire allied interest around the globe. The F-16v also uses new computers and software as well as a high-definition cockpit display. The “v” model also adds a new data bus, electronic warfare suite, missile warning sensor and helmet mounted cueing system.
F-16v


The core of the F-16V configuration is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, a modern commercial off-the-shelf (COTS)-based avionics subsystem, a large-format, high-resolution display; and a high-volume, high-speed data bus.
Lockheed Martin
This upgraded F-16v technical foundation provided the technical starting point for Lockheed’s next-generation F-16 specifically built for India called the F-21.

F-21 with IRST Technology​

Not only does the F-21 incorporate AESA, but the jet also integrates a high-tech, next-generation targeting system called Infrared Search and Track (IRST) technology. IRST, which is used extensively in F/A-18 Super Hornets, is a passive, long-range sensor that searches for and detects infrared emissions.

F-21


Lockheed Martin, F-21
Lockheed Martin
Much like the AESA, the IRST can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment. As a passive, long-range sensor able to provide air-to-air targeting, IRST introduces new combat variables for the F-16.
In effect, while there are ultimately limits to how much an older aircraft can be upgraded, today’s F-16 is almost an entirely different airplane apart from keeping its basic airframe configuration.
-- Kris Osborn is the President of Warrior Maven and The Defense Editor of The National Interest --
Kris Osborn is the defense editor for the National Interest. Osborn previously served at the Pentagon as a Highly Qualified Expert with the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army—Acquisition, Logistics & Technology. Osborn has also worked as an anchor and on-air military specialist at national TV networks. He has appeared as a guest military expert on Fox News, MSNBC, The Military Channel, and The History Channel. He also has a Master's Degree in Comparative Literature from Columbia University.
Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven


Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven President

All talk is about future of F-16 not what currently available in production, also no mention of Pakistan either.
 
View attachment 877473



F-16s Fight Into 2040 with F-35 AESA Radar and Modernized Weapons
Credit the Service Life Extension Program which modernized F-16s
Lockheed Martin

By Kris Osborn - President & Editor-In-Chief, Warrior Maven
(Washington, D.C.) The Air Force is giving its 1970s-era F-16 fighter F-35 technology as part of a massive fleet-wide overhaul intended to improve targeting, attack precision and computer systems -- to extend the fighter’s combat life all the way into the 2040s.
It might be tough to imagine that today’s Air Force F-16 dates back as far as the 1970s, a circumstance which might lead some to wonder how the combat aircraft has sustained its combat relevance and performance capacity into the dynamic threat environment of the 2020s.

F-16 Service Life Extension Program​

The answer is actually quite extensive and goes back many years to the inception and preservation of an F-16 Service Life Extension Program which upgraded the upper wing skin and fittings, adjusted the bulkhead and canopy and gave the aircraft an F-35 Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA).
F-16 Lockheed Martin


Lockheed Martin F-16
Lockheed Martin

Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA)​

With AESA, the F-16 incorporated an entirely new ability to find, detect and track enemy threats at much greater ranges. The aim of the SLEP was to extend the flight time of F-16s from roughly six-to-seven thousand flight hours to 8,000 or more flight hours. On top of that, the service’s confidence in the upgrades have led to plan to have the F-16 fly all the way out to 12,000 hours.
The AESA radar, which Lockheed developers say can track up to 20-targets at one time, is a massive upgrade beyond the F-16s previous mechanically-scanned radar. By virtue of its ability to track multiple targets, the AESA radar can scan in a 360-degree sphere to include horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors.

Modernized Cockpit Avionics​

Not surprisingly, the F-16 has also in recent years received new cockpit avionics to include moving map displays, video in the cockpit. digital graphics screens and new target tracking systems.

On-Board Automation​

Upgraded F-16s also uses a high degree of increased on-board automation to free up pilot focus and workload. By automatically performing a range of important procedural functions independently, a pilot is then freed up to focus more intently on other mission critical tasks.
Scroll to Continue

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BY CARTER DILLARDJUN 1, 2022
1024px-AlCaponemugshotCPD

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F-16v​

Alongside the Air Force SLEP, Lockheed Martin has also been building a new F-16v variant, which continues to inspire allied interest around the globe. The F-16v also uses new computers and software as well as a high-definition cockpit display. The “v” model also adds a new data bus, electronic warfare suite, missile warning sensor and helmet mounted cueing system.
F-16v


The core of the F-16V configuration is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, a modern commercial off-the-shelf (COTS)-based avionics subsystem, a large-format, high-resolution display; and a high-volume, high-speed data bus.
Lockheed Martin
This upgraded F-16v technical foundation provided the technical starting point for Lockheed’s next-generation F-16 specifically built for India called the F-21.

F-21 with IRST Technology​

Not only does the F-21 incorporate AESA, but the jet also integrates a high-tech, next-generation targeting system called Infrared Search and Track (IRST) technology. IRST, which is used extensively in F/A-18 Super Hornets, is a passive, long-range sensor that searches for and detects infrared emissions.

F-21


Lockheed Martin, F-21
Lockheed Martin
Much like the AESA, the IRST can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment. As a passive, long-range sensor able to provide air-to-air targeting, IRST introduces new combat variables for the F-16.
In effect, while there are ultimately limits to how much an older aircraft can be upgraded, today’s F-16 is almost an entirely different airplane apart from keeping its basic airframe configuration.
-- Kris Osborn is the President of Warrior Maven and The Defense Editor of The National Interest --
Kris Osborn is the defense editor for the National Interest. Osborn previously served at the Pentagon as a Highly Qualified Expert with the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army—Acquisition, Logistics & Technology. Osborn has also worked as an anchor and on-air military specialist at national TV networks. He has appeared as a guest military expert on Fox News, MSNBC, The Military Channel, and The History Channel. He also has a Master's Degree in Comparative Literature from Columbia University.
Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven


Kris Osborn, Warrior Maven President

Dear
That is not how radars work, most of all AESA doesn't work that way.

For a 360 coverage, you would have sensors all over the fuselage and the wings.
That kills the purpose then and there.

I believe the proverbial 360 is being used as pilot's situational awareness ; which may be achieved once the aircraft is integrated with other airborne surveillance pieces.
 
F-16V is no longer the most capable F-16.

We are getting the following major upgrades as part of the package

1) Engine upgrades upto 12000 hours
2) An AESA radar that can scan in a 360-degree sphere - horizontal, vertical and diagonal vectors to track up to 20-targets at any time
3) Infrared Search and Track (IRST) that can track multiple targets at once and operate in an electromagnetic warfare environment

No - the size of this deal is too "small" to have an AESA radar as part of the deal. This deal is about keeping the fleet flying - but no real capability increase. It is also quite expensive - for the size of this deal, Pakistan could procure a squadron of JF17 Block III's which with their AESA radars, and PL15s are more capable in the Air-to-Air domain .....
 
Dear
That is not how radars work, most of all AESA doesn't work that way.

For a 360 coverage, you would have sensors all over the fuselage and the wings.
That kills the purpose then and there.

I believe the proverbial 360 is being used as pilot's situational awareness ; which may be achieved once the aircraft is integrated with other airborne surveillance pieces.
He is talking about half a sphere 180 in two dimensions/180 in frontal aspect
 
Back in the day, before it was cancelled.
Major Defense Equipment (MDE):
1.Eight F-16 block 52 aircraft (two C and six D models), with the F100-PW-229 increased performance engine
2. Fourteen Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)

Non-MDE items included in this request are:
1.Eight AN/APG-68(V)9 radars
2. Eight ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS)

The estimated cost of MDE is $564.68 million. The total estimated cost is $699.04 million.
 
Back in the day, before it was cancelled.
Major Defense Equipment (MDE):
1.Eight F-16 block 52 aircraft (two C and six D models), with the F100-PW-229 increased performance engine
2. Fourteen Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)

Non-MDE items included in this request are:
1.Eight AN/APG-68(V)9 radars
2. Eight ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS)

The estimated cost of MDE is $564.68 million. The total estimated cost is $699.04 million.
Does this cost of 699 million USD include MDE and Non MDE?
 
Last edited:
Can we assume from this potential sale that Uncle Sam has apparently provided us NOC to have used vipers from friends? Just an assumptious question ? Any senior member ?
 
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