Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[litman]

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html
as per most of the sources F-16 ADF can carry AMRAAMs. but it seems some members like to find some sort of "kill switch theory" in every F-16.

https://nation.com.pk/28-Apr-2014/5-used-jordanian-f-16s-inducted-into-paf
they have attained MLU status. getting an air craft which cant carry BVR missile in the modern era even at a very low cost doesnt seem to be sensible at all. if they cant carry amraams it would have been better to go for some JFT.

 

[Viper27]

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html
as per most of the sources F-16 ADF can carry AMRAAMs. but it seems some members like to find some sort of "kill switch theory" in every F-16.

https://nation.com.pk/28-Apr-2014/5-used-jordanian-f-16s-inducted-into-paf
they have attained MLU status. getting an air craft which cant carry BVR missile in the modern era even at a very low cost doesnt seem to be sensible at all. if they cant carry amraams it would have been better to go for some JFT.

Had you bothered to do more research you would have realised that all these Jordanian ADFs we acquired have not received any MLU upgrade. Instead of relying on "The Nation" go to F-16.net and see the details of every ADF we have from the database there. You might learn that these ADFs did not go through any upgrade.

No one is denying that ADFs cannot carry AMRAAMs. The issue is that they cannot fire the AIM-120C which the PAF has. Please read the comments properly before responding.

 

[GriffinsRule]

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.html
as per most of the sources F-16 ADF can carry AMRAAMs. but it seems some members like to find some sort of "kill switch theory" in every F-16.

https://nation.com.pk/28-Apr-2014/5-used-jordanian-f-16s-inducted-into-paf
they have attained MLU status. getting an air craft which cant carry BVR missile in the modern era even at a very low cost doesnt seem to be sensible at all. if they cant carry amraams it would have been better to go for some JFT.

Sorry man but the first batch of Jordanian F-16s under Peace Falcon that we eventually got did not go through an MLU but did get structural upgrades under Falcon Up program to increase life from 4000 to 8000 flying hours prior to delivery to Jordan. While all ADF variants have Block 15OCU avionics and their radars upgraded from APG-66 to APG-66A, the also don't know if the US took out the ability for these jets to be armed with or fire the AIM-120. This is of course speculation but there is no proof of these jets being able to be armed with the AIM-120C5 that PAF has.

Even looking at the aircraft, it is missing all telltale signs of having been through MLU. I think it would be a good option for PAF to undertake, even if these jets have only 4000 hours of flying hours left ... that is still a good number of decades of operations. It will also standardize the fleet and make maintenance easier.

Edit:
For the sake of completeness, I thought I should also include the only other air force which operated F-16ADF on a lease from the US and also became the first country to withdraw F-16s from its service, the Italian Air Force. No idea if their jets went under any upgrade outside of the structural stuff. Here are a couple of pictures of their ADF version of the jet carrying AIM-120 so anything is possible. If anyone can find out which version of the AMRAAM they used, we could have our answer.

Cockpit of the Italian F-16 ADF

 

[Sidacca]

No. 2 Squadron is staying in Karachi. It is getting additional aircraft, potentially making it the biggest fighter squadron by fleet numbers (almost equivalent to 2 full-strength squadrons).

No. 7 sqn and No.22 sqn will go through some interchanging of assets and a Mirage sqn is expected to be shifted to Bholari. They will pose as a threat to IAF bases on the other side of the border and deter army movements.

A new squadron of AWACS is being raised at Bholari that will operate SAAB 2000's. and cover southern command and other bases in the center.



Slightly true.

Technically PAF does not have specialized pilots per say. Squadron roles can change anytime. People make up a squadron. And people can be moved around or retrained to suit needs. That's not a challenge.

Sorry for being off topic but I need you to explain Pakistan's network centric capabilities, how potent it is..? What else need to be done..? Thank you

 

[Shabi1]

Sorry for being off topic but I need you to explain Pakistan's network centric capabilities, how potent it is..? What else need to be done..? Thank you

We have our own locally developed data link called Link17. How potent it is, Indian defence analysts have quoted it to be a big challenge and Swift Retort?
Navy making their own system with Turkey, so next step would be link these up.

 

[airomerix]

What’s going on with No.2 if it is OK to say here ?

I mean like are the Bravos finally getting their spot along with Singles ? Or a surprise ?

Nothing fancy is going on.

All 8 Bravo's have been distributed among 4 squadrons for testing.

Sorry for being off topic but I need you to explain Pakistan's network centric capabilities, how potent it is..? What else need to be done..? Thank you

I don't have an answer to this because net-centric capabilities are usually kept secret. All we know is that Saab 2000, Falcon DA20, and some other assets further PAF's network-centric needs.

Our comms function on secure lines and have been supplied by reputable defense firms (unlike IAF until recently)

 

[Sidacca]

We have our own locally developed data link called Link17. How potent it is, Indian defence analysts have quoted it to be a big challenge and Swift Retort?
Navy making their own system with Turkey, so next step would be link these up.

Thanks for the reply, what I have observed that in KSA, Iran, India, syria, Yemen and Libya the SAMs system are badly exposed, sometimes shooting own assets and sometimes fail to intercept incomings... This could be due better situational awareness so in case of Pakistan air defence you say is better interconnected and our network centric give us better situational awareness..?

 

[capricorn5192]

A fighter squadron from Masroor is to be transferred to Bholari shortly.

that means something will replace the transferred squadron, so are we talking about some new fighter jets?

 

[Viper27]

Sorry man but the first batch of Jordanian F-16s under Peace Falcon that we eventually got did not go through an MLU but did get structural upgrades under Falcon Up program to increase life from 4000 to 8000 flying hours prior to delivery to Jordan. While all ADF variants have Block 15OCU avionics and their radars upgraded from APG-66 to APG-66A, the also don't know if the US took out the ability for these jets to be armed with or fire the AIM-120. This is of course speculation but there is no proof of these jets being able to be armed with the AIM-120C5 that PAF has.

Even looking at the aircraft, it is missing all telltale signs of having been through MLU. I think it would be a good option for PAF to undertake, even if these jets have only 4000 hours of flying hours left ... that is still a good number of decades of operations. It will also standardize the fleet and make maintenance easier.

Edit:
For the sake of completeness, I thought I should also include the only other air force which operated F-16ADF on a lease from the US and also became the first country to withdraw F-16s from its service, the Italian Air Force. No idea if their jets went under any upgrade outside of the structural stuff. Here are a couple of pictures of their ADF version of the jet carrying AIM-120 so anything is possible. If anyone can find out which version of the AMRAAM they used, we could have our answer.

Cockpit of the Italian F-16 ADF

I have attached a "Happy Hooligans" ANG F-16 picture from F-16.net showing an older AIM-120. Many pictures in the F-16 database showing ADFs with older AMRAAMs.

All ADFs can carry AMRAAMs but it's quite certain now they can't fire the AIM-120C.

 

[litman]

Sorry man but the first batch of Jordanian F-16s under Peace Falcon that we eventually got did not go through an MLU but did get structural upgrades under Falcon Up program to increase life from 4000 to 8000 flying hours prior to delivery to Jordan. While all ADF variants have Block 15OCU avionics and their radars upgraded from APG-66 to APG-66A, the also don't know if the US took out the ability for these jets to be armed with or fire the AIM-120. This is of course speculation but there is no proof of these jets being able to be armed with the AIM-120C5 that PAF has.

Even looking at the aircraft, it is missing all telltale signs of having been through MLU. I think it would be a good option for PAF to undertake, even if these jets have only 4000 hours of flying hours left ... that is still a good number of decades of operations. It will also standardize the fleet and make maintenance easier.

Edit:
For the sake of completeness, I thought I should also include the only other air force which operated F-16ADF on a lease from the US and also became the first country to withdraw F-16s from its service, the Italian Air Force. No idea if their jets went under any upgrade outside of the structural stuff. Here are a couple of pictures of their ADF version of the jet carrying AIM-120 so anything is possible. If anyone can find out which version of the AMRAAM they used, we could have our answer.

Cockpit of the Italian F-16 ADF

the link that i gave says that it can carry upto 6 BVRs. aim7 or amraam. i will take that link as more authentic source. getting an air craft without BVR capability is nothing but a blunder. i dont think PAF is that much idiot.

Had you bothered to do more research you would have realised that all these Jordanian ADFs we acquired have not received any MLU upgrade. Instead of relying on "The Nation" go to F-16.net and see the details of every ADF we have from the database there. You might learn that these ADFs did not go through any upgrade.

No one is denying that ADFs cannot carry AMRAAMs. The issue is that they cannot fire the AIM-120C which the PAF has. Please read the comments properly before responding.

your comments are without any authentic source. provide an authentic link which says that these F-16s cant carry AIM 120C. i dont believe in "kill switch "theories any more. provide me a link of some PAF official and i will surely be convinced.

 

[litman]

. as per many PAF sources these jets were upgraded before delivery to PAF. it is hard to digest that PAF inducted 13 jets in 2014 without BVR capability. if its true then 21 gun salute to their visionary leadership.

watch from 14:04 onward.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/636257-paf-acquires-f-16s-from-jordan

 

[TheTallGuy]

the link that i gave says that it can carry upto 6 BVRs. aim7 or amraam. i will take that link as more authentic source. getting an air craft without BVR capability is nothing but a blunder. i dont think PAF is that much idiot.


your comments are without any authentic source. provide an authentic link which says that these F-16s cant carry AIM 120C.

Brother, to effectively utilize AIM-120C5 they require APG68V radar which Ex-RJAF peace falcon 1 deal do not have. what is not there to understand? no if you are saying can "Carry" AIM-120 then answer is "Yes"F-16 can carry lot of things too..What i understand No.19 Sqn have become as OCU for Falcon pilots then they move on to more sophisticated F-16s...

 

[litman]

Brother, to effectively utilize AIM-120C5 they require APG68V radar which Ex-RJAF peace falcon 1 deal do not have. what is not there to understand? no if you are saying can "Carry" AIM-120 then answer is "Yes"F-16 can carry lot of things too..What i understand No.19 Sqn have become as OCU for Falcon pilots then they move on to more sophisticated F-16s...

but there are reports that these were upgraded. see the link which i posted in previous post.
also this one on F-16.net http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4835.html

 

[Yasser76]

T

Brother, to effectively utilize AIM-120C5 they require APG68V radar which Ex-RJAF peace falcon 1 deal do not have. what is not there to understand? no if you are saying can "Carry" AIM-120 then answer is "Yes"F-16 can carry lot of things too..What i understand No.19 Sqn have become as OCU for Falcon pilots then they move on to more sophisticated F-16s...

This is the point, if we have a 75 aircraft F-16 fleet is matters little of 14 of them cannot carry AMRAAM, not all F-16s will be in the BVR role, we can use ADFs to save hours on the rest of the fleet, especially if 19Sqd is in an OCU role. These jets are still formidable in the air to ground role and I suspect that much of their role and reason for the current base maybe to deep strike any Indian Army formations in Rajahstan desert....

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

reason for the current base maybe to deep strike any Indian Army formations in Rajahstan desert....

What SOWs these F16s can carry against IA Formations?