Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Chak Bamu]

Do we know whether they are MLUed or not? It might sway PAFs decision on whether to buy them or not. However I think the US in its current mood will not allow us and this is where the problem lies. If the approval was forthcoming we could have gotten th ex Jordanian 16s which are in a much better condition.
A

"The Royal Norwegian Air Force (Luftforsvaret) was one of the four initial European Participating Air Forces and ordered a total of 74 F-16A/B aircraft. Of these, 56 were updated under the MLU program."
source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article12.html

So, 18 are non-MLU. It seems probable that the 28 being offered are MLUed.

As far as current mood of US is concerned, let us first bid and see which way it swings these days.

If @Munir were alive, he would likely advise against these in backdrop of his experience with Swedish units (Sea air corrosion issue). Let us see how PAF goes about it.

 

[araz]

"The Royal Norwegian Air Force (Luftforsvaret) was one of the four initial European Participating Air Forces and ordered a total of 74 F-16A/B aircraft. Of these, 56 were updated under the MLU program."
source: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article12.html

So, 18 are non-MLU. It seems probable that the 28 being offered are MLUed.

As far as current mood of US is concerned, let us first bid and see which way it swings these days.

If @Munir were alive, he would likely advise against these in backdrop of his experience with Swedish units (Sea air corrosion issue). Let us see how PAF goes about it.

I think PAF might sit this one out. The frames life is a major issue as even with the Jordanian 16s we were reluctant to tke on those air frames with less than 2k life in them. However let us see what transpires.
A

 

[Yasser76]

US just approved 15 surplus F-16s to Jordan, strange considering Jordan is trying to sell some of it's vipers. Could be a way of circumnavigating things and making sure PAF gets Jordan F-16s and Jordan replaces them via US?

https://cha.house.gov/sites/democrats.cha.house.gov/files/Foreign Affairs_8.pdf

 

[mingle]

US just approved 15 surplus F-16s to Jordan, strange considering Jordan is trying to sell some of it's vipers. Could be a way of circumnavigating things and making sure PAF gets Jordan F-16s and Jordan replaces them via US?

https://cha.house.gov/sites/democrats.cha.house.gov/files/Foreign Affairs_8.pdf

I think previous Jordanian F16s are stored nor operational PAF may get 15+15 =30 from Jordan.

 

[Keysersoze]

I think previous Jordanian F16s are stored nor operational PAF may get 15+15 =30 from Jordan.

That number is interesting considering the number of MLU packs ordered.

 

[MIRauf]

MLU Kit numbers (quantity) was based on inventory at that time plus the 28 embargoed F-16s.

 

[Viper27]

US just approved 15 surplus F-16s to Jordan, strange considering Jordan is trying to sell some of it's vipers. Could be a way of circumnavigating things and making sure PAF gets Jordan F-16s and Jordan replaces them via US?

https://cha.house.gov/sites/democrats.cha.house.gov/files/Foreign Affairs_8.pdf

I think the notification means that Jordan is getting various parts for 15 F-16s. Not 15 aircraft.

 

[ziaulislam]

Help settle Afghanistan and the doors will open. The money will be released and approval cleared for military sales.

it wont, its all about leverage ..we dont have leverage, we are as desperate for Afghanistan issue to settle as USA is..USA can pack and leave but we cant, if that happens millions of refugees will pour over

as of today there are over 9 billion dollars pending in military expense, on top if it another 1 b spent on walling/fencing of the boarder

USA spent almost 1 trillion in afghan operation
pakistan probably spent 20-25b $ and received around 17b in aid in the approved 33b$ aid..
a big loss financially

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

MLU Kit numbers (quantity) was based on inventory at that time plus the 28 embargoed F-16s.

Yep -- it was meant for all 28 ex-PG III/IV F-16s. I don't think we bought more than 14 MLU kits from that deal as the Jordanian F-16s were flown as-is. I imagine the PAF is seeking the F-16V upgrade, but I actually don't think the Jordanian F-16s are going to be included in that; rather, they might keep the Jordanian F-16s as-is for training (not OCU but as a bridge for younger pilots).

 

[MIRauf]

Yep -- it was meant for all 28 ex-PG III/IV F-16s. I don't think we bought more than 14 MLU kits from that deal as the Jordanian F-16s were flown as-is. I imagine the PAF is seeking the F-16V upgrade, but I actually don't think the Jordanian F-16s are going to be included in that; rather, they might keep the Jordanian F-16s as-is for training (not OCU but as a bridge for younger pilots).

But PAF requires 100+ F-16s and it should be obvious from Feb-27 encounter, so it will either need to pickup both new and used USAF, bring the current and used to block-V and new as block-72 or pick up used from other nations. Pak / PAF will need / have to pony up the $ if POTUS doesn't release CSF $.

As Zia posted in other thread of $9 Billion stuck funds, that $ should come from the GCC, mostly KSA as Pak / Afghanistan ended up with their undesirables that got sent for holy jihad and never went home.

 

[Viper27]

Yep -- it was meant for all 28 ex-PG III/IV F-16s. I don't think we bought more than 14 MLU kits from that deal as the Jordanian F-16s were flown as-is. I imagine the PAF is seeking the F-16V upgrade, but I actually don't think the Jordanian F-16s are going to be included in that; rather, they might keep the Jordanian F-16s as-is for training (not OCU but as a bridge for younger pilots).

Given that Jordanian ADFs are built to carry as many as 6 AMRAAMs they may be kept for air to air role and not just for training. Just my speculation..

 

[ziaulislam]

I think PAF might sit this one out. The frames life is a major issue as even with the Jordanian 16s we were reluctant to tke on those air frames with less than 2k life in them. However let us see what transpires.
A

2k hours at around 5-8m a piece is an issue?

Especially when u r short on fighters and there is real perspective /option of puttin them through further SLEP

I think the issue is non approval as mentioned previously by pak def ministry

 

[araz]

2k hours at around 5-8m a piece is an issue?

Especially when u r short on fighters and there is real perspective /option of puttin them through further SLEP

I think the issue is non approval as mentioned previously by pak def ministry

Let us wait and see how this transpires. I agree the US approval remains a big issue. By the way the Norwegian planes at an average have 1200 flying hours not 2K.
A

 

[khanasifm]

Given that Jordanian ADFs are built to carry as many as 6 AMRAAMs they may be kept for air to air role and not just for training. Just my speculation..

Looks like most junior converting to f-16 report from k-8s/f-7 LIFT there and then move on to rest of the f-16s sqn after few hundred hours and years

 

[Windjammer]