Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[User]

USAF vid - but just to get an idea of what goes on inside that bubble canopy for a first timer.
Enjoy!

@airomerix @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Hodor @Raider 21 @Windjammer @Akh1112 @GriffinsRule

Is this GIB?

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Raja Porus]

Looks like another planet, perhaps Neptune. Beautiful.
Btw why is an American tanker refueling them. I mean can anyone tell which occasion it was?

 

[FuturePAF]

View attachment 708503

Looks like another planet, perhaps Neptune. Beautiful.
Btw why is an American tanker refueling them. I mean can anyone tell which occasion it was?

Probably when they were on their way to Red Flag

 

[Raja Porus]

Probably when they were on their way to Red Flag

Yep. That's what I was thinking

 

[Yasser76]

Biden administration to revive military-to-military ties with Pakistan

“Pakistan has also taken steps against anti-Indian groups, such as LeT and JeM, although progress is incomplete,” says Gen Austin.

www.dawn.com

 

[Raja Porus]

Biden administration to revive military-to-military ties with Pakistan

“Pakistan has also taken steps against anti-Indian groups, such as LeT and JeM, although progress is incomplete,” says Gen Austin.

www.dawn.com

Hoping for the best.
The general, however, acknowledged that “many factors in addition to the security assistance suspension may impact Pakistan’s cooperation, including Afghanistan negotiations and the dangerous escalation following the Pulwama terrorist attack.”
This seems promising

 

[Raja Porus]

 

[Yasser76]

I cannot think of any US President in recent history who knows Pakistan as well as Biden. He has visited many times, was instrumental in aid packages and support, so whatever his strategy is towards South Asia it will come from a position of knowledge not ignorance. He is also VERY aware that Pakistan suffers from Indian shenanigans too, so simply will not buy into Indias accusations against Pakistan, of course he has to balance this against needing India against China.

Of course Austin knows much of Pak Mil leadership from his days as head of CENTCOM.

In all I am quietly optimistic that we MAY see at least some approvals for EDA (preferably used F-16s, more M109s, maybe more C-130s), I think any major F-16V upgrade programme may have to be paid out of Pakistani funds.

 

[Raja Porus]

I cannot think of any US President in recent history who knows Pakistan as well as Biden. He has visited many times, was instrumental in aid packages and support, so whatever his strategy is towards South Asia it will come from a position of knowledge not ignorance. He is also VERY aware that Pakistan suffers from Indian shenanigans too, so simply will not buy into Indias accusations against Pakistan, of course he has to balance this against needing India against China.

Of course Austin knows much of Pak Mil leadership from his days as head of CENTCOM.

In all I am quietly optimistic that we MAY see at least some approvals for EDA (preferably used F-16s, more M109s, maybe more C-130s), I think any major F-16V upgrade programme may have to be paid out of Pakistani funds.

If we get f16s than hopefully we can say good bye to the j10 rumours. Also it would be great if we get vipers as well as c130s

 

[Ghessan]

View attachment 708597

we must not sell cheap, let them bring everything to the table (demands)

weigh them, if not workable as per integrity of the country just refuse otherwise ask what they offer in return. we have nothing to lose with this new administration, damage is already there.

the most important thing we should ask is trade along with "relationship not compromised or influenced by their policies towards India"

i doubt CSF, in that case pay for everything, are we willing?

 

[Yasser76]

If we get f16s than hopefully we can say good bye to the j10 rumours. Also it would be great if we get vipers as well as c130s

Stored A/B frames from EDA is a good win/win for both sides.

Issue now is basically what you do with them. MLU update is now almost out of date and no point in doing. So essentially we could just get stored early model C/Ds or Ex European MLUs, which would actually fit better into PAF force structure. Unless we shell out a few billion to get get EDAs and upgrade them and entire current PAF EDA fleet to V standard.

My approach would be get another 40 EDA F-16s to get PAF fleet total to 115 planes. Upgrade all 115 to V.

Taiwan is paying $5Billion to upgrade 144 F-16A/Bs to V standard, so you will probably be looking at around $3-4 Billion for Pakistan, but 115 F-16Vs pretty much erases need for J-10C and puts us in a very healthy position as combined with more JF-17s means you are easily looking at an all F-16/JF-17 PAF of around 7 F-16 Squadrons and 12 JF-17 squadrons. Puts us in a health position till AZM at full production

 

[araz]

Stored A/B frames from EDA is a good win/win for both sides.

Issue now is basically what you do with them. MLU update is now almost out of date and no point in doing. So essentially we could just get stored early model C/Ds or Ex European MLUs, which would actually fit better into PAF force structure. Unless we shell out a few billion to get get EDAs and upgrade them and entire current PAF EDA fleet to V standard.

My approach would be get another 40 EDA F-16s to get PAF fleet total to 115 planes. Upgrade all 115 to V.

Taiwan is paying $5Billion to upgrade 144 F-16A/Bs to V standard, so you will probably be looking at around $3-4 Billion for Pakistan, but 115 F-16Vs pretty much erases need for J-10C and puts us in a very healthy position as combined with more JF-17s means you are easily looking at an all F-16/JF-17 PAF of around 7 F-16 Squadrons and 12 JF-17 squadrons. Puts us in a health position till AZM at full production

Lockmart/US Govtt has previously resisted our requests for all older platforms plus the boneyard might not have suitable A/Bs to upgrade due to life left on airframe. It might bebetter to get 32/42s and upgrade. I have asked the queztion repeatedly and not got an answer as to why PAF has not gone down the route already and what additional infrastructure would be required. Knowing US it would require us to buy some new planes to get the upgrades we want and this is where things might get tough for us financially. I assume 72s will be a different hardware with its own infrastructure and revamping all of it will require new training for all pilotsand most importantly technicians.
A

 

[Yasser76]

Lockmart/US Govtt has previously resisted our requests for all older platforms plus the boneyard might not have suitable A/Bs to upgrade due to life left on airframe. It might bebetter to get 32/42s and upgrade. I have asked the queztion repeatedly and not got an answer as to why PAF has not gone down the route already and what additional infrastructure would be required. Knowing US it would require us to buy some new planes to get the upgrades we want and this is where things might get tough for us financially. I assume 72s will be a different hardware with its own infrastructure and revamping all of it will require new training for all pilotsand most importantly technicians.
A

Agreed, but as more and more NATO F-35s are delivered I think we can expect to see even more Belgium, Dutch, Norwegian and Danish F-16s become available and they are all MLU'd to very similar standards to the PAF (Think PAF MLU maybe M4 tape), these would very easily fit into PAF, be very cheap and only require US end user approval.

As for the difference in infrastructure for the V, I am pretty sure it's just a AESA radar and new mission computer, not much of a new challenge for training or maintence

 

[araz]

Agreed, but as more and more NATO F-35s are delivered I think we can expect to see even more Belgium, Dutch, Norwegian and Danish F-16s become available and they are all MLU'd to very similar standards to the PAF (Think PAF MLU maybe M4 tape), these would very easily fit into PAF, be very cheap and only require US end user approval.

As for the difference in infrastructure for the V, I am pretty sure it's just a AESA radar and new mission computer, not much of a new challenge for training or maintence

The question of airframe life left still is pivotal. Plus US would not let us buy from third party without gettung us to buy some new ones. It seems from PAFs buying in 2006 that at least 36 were commited for to get 28MLU plus kits. So how many do we have to buy to get the upgrades we want. Lastly the perrineal question of finances remains. Either case this makes a lot more sense than J10s.
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