Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Yasser76]

The question of airframe life left still is pivotal. Plus US would not let us buy from third party without gettung us to buy some new ones. It seems from PAFs buying in 2006 that at least 36 were commited for to get 28MLU plus kits. So how many do we have to buy to get the upgrades we want. Lastly the perrineal question of finances remains. Either case this makes a lot more sense than J10s.
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Totally agree

 

[Windjammer]

 

[ziaulislam]

The question of airframe life left still is pivotal. Plus US would not let us buy from third party without gettung us to buy some new ones. It seems from PAFs buying in 2006 that at least 36 were commited for to get 28MLU plus kits. So how many do we have to buy to get the upgrades we want. Lastly the perrineal question of finances remains. Either case this makes a lot more sense than J10s.
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given vast experience of f16 around the world, upgrade for life fram have already been worked out e.g in case of taiwan
i think a package can easily be brought to up the life from 8000hrs to 12000 hrs

i doubt this package will cost more then 4-5m/plan, if we can get frame for 3-4m from thrid countries, this can be <10m solution and very potent way to quickly replace a large amount of jets

we can then focus on improving jf17 for specialized role like strike using stand off weapons or we can simply keep 2-3 squardons of mirages rather then using so many mirages for other roles
jordanian f16s and many frames in europe are around 6000 hours
even USA has many EDA frames at around 4000 hours

issue is not availaiblity but USA approval and finances

 

[Yasser76]

given vast experience of f16 around the world, upgrade for life fram have already been worked out e.g in case of taiwan
i think a package can easily be brought to up the life from 8000hrs to 12000 hrs

i doubt this package will cost more then 4-5m/plan, if we can get frame for 3-4m from thrid countries, this can be <10m solution and very potent way to quickly replace a large amount of jets

we can then focus on improving jf17 for specialized role like strike using stand off weapons or we can simply keep 2-3 squardons of mirages rather then using so many mirages for other roles
jordanian f16s and many frames in europe are around 6000 hours
even USA has many EDA frames at around 4000 hours

issue is not availaiblity but USA approval and finances

Exactly, Pakistan is one of the very few countries with

1) Demand for more F-16 airframes
2) Ability to easily absorb many more quickly (bases, pilots, technicians etc)
3) Ability to upgrade with TAI support

 

[Path-Finder]

oh dear has the hope of new gov = more F16 still strong among us?

 

[Yasser76]

oh dear has the hope of new gov = more F16 still strong among us?

Nothing wrong with more F-16s if they come cheap or free. Can also use surplus frames as spare parts source.

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

Oh no plz do not write 50+ pages on IF Pakistan will get more F16....

 

[Yasser76]

Oh no plz do not write 50+ pages on IF Pakistan will get more F16....

Hahahaha, if we stopped doing that there would be no PDF!

 

[mingle]

The question of airframe life left still is pivotal. Plus US would not let us buy from third party without gettung us to buy some new ones. It seems from PAFs buying in 2006 that at least 36 were commited for to get 28MLU plus kits. So how many do we have to buy to get the upgrades we want. Lastly the perrineal question of finances remains. Either case this makes a lot more sense than J10s.
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Cpl Blk70 sqdn won't be more than 2 billions but with that shopping if PAF gets her hands on used airframes as many as they want not a bad deal with V upgrades to whole fleet along C130 there are Belgium used H available and local MRO would be great

Oh no plz do not write 50+ pages on IF Pakistan will get more F16....

That's what a forum means

 

[ghazi52]

Nice angle

 

[mingle]

given vast experience of f16 around the world, upgrade for life fram have already been worked out e.g in case of taiwan
i think a package can easily be brought to up the life from 8000hrs to 12000 hrs

i doubt this package will cost more then 4-5m/plan, if we can get frame for 3-4m from thrid countries, this can be <10m solution and very potent way to quickly replace a large amount of jets

we can then focus on improving jf17 for specialized role like strike using stand off weapons or we can simply keep 2-3 squardons of mirages rather then using so many mirages for other roles
jordanian f16s and many frames in europe are around 6000 hours
even USA has many EDA frames at around 4000 hours

issue is not availaiblity but USA approval and finances

Alot of surplus F16s are available now in EU and US since F35 is replacing NATO countries F16s

Exactly, Pakistan is one of the very few countries with

1) Demand for more F-16 airframes
2) Ability to easily absorb many more quickly (bases, pilots, technicians etc)
3) Ability to upgrade with TAI support

This time I doubt US will allow TAI more likely they will do by themselves current US Turkey relation also Americans vendors looking business post COVID
I am in favour of 36New along 40-45 used airframes that's make a good 150-160 jetts a lot of fire power easy retirement for F7 and some mirages no need for J10 but if Chinese pressure is there then otherwise

 

[GriffinsRule]

TAI does not have the expertise to upgrade to block 70 version. It would be performed in the US, unless PAF is able to push for a local upgrade at PAC, though that seems unlikely.
There is also little sense in upgrading really old airframes to the latest version, such as the Jordanian aircraft. If anything, upgrade just the latest block 52s and buy another squadron of new aircraft. Use the radars and other equipment to update the block 15ADFs to the same MLU standards basically as the current fleet.
That means any used aircraft could be early C/D variants or lower life (if any) block 15s. Looks like there are 201/37 A/B variants and 112/13 C/D variants in storage at the dessert, give or take.
I think even having a fleet of 45-60 block 70s, both upgraded and new, would be very potent and could lead the existing MLU birds in cooperative engagements. Don't think we need to or can afford to have every single aircraft upgraded.
Coupled with block IIIs, we are going to be in a very good position to work on AZM.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

I have some hope that with new US govt, blocked F-16 and zulu Helicopters will be released .

 

[GriffinsRule]

I have some hope that with new US govt, blocked F-16 and zulu Helicopters will be released .

There are no blocked F-16s though.

 

[Shabi1]

TAI does not have the expertise to upgrade to block 70 version. It would be performed in the US, unless PAF is able to push for a local upgrade at PAC, though that seems unlikely.
There is also little sense in upgrading really old airframes to the latest version, such as the Jordanian aircraft. If anything, upgrade just the latest block 52s and buy another squadron of new aircraft. Use the radars and other equipment to update the block 15ADFs to the same MLU standards basically as the current fleet.
That means any used aircraft could be early C/D variants or lower life (if any) block 15s. Looks like there are 201/37 A/B variants and 112/13 C/D variants in storage at the dessert, give or take.
I think even having a fleet of 45-60 block 70s, both upgraded and new, would be very potent and could lead the existing MLU birds in cooperative engagements. Don't think we need to or can afford to have every single aircraft upgraded.
Coupled with block IIIs, we are going to be in a very good position to work on AZM.

Block-70 are only available new, latest upgrade standard is named F-16V (Viper).
TAI is a licensed producer to Lockheed Martin, what they can do is get parts from LM in form kits and integrate on behalf of LM, same as was done with previous PAF jets. Logistically its simpler to fly the jets to Turkey rather than US.
Besides Turkey is working on its own domestic AESA radar and upgrades for its F-16s. This would need blessing of LM in the form of certification or will need to prepare disownment from LM for performance of the product. F-5 and F-4 upgrades from non manufacturers have been done in past. No idea on how TAI intends to finally implement it.
Under Biden I suspect Turkey will still be barred from F-35 and future tech but expect remaining cooperation to restore. This sill give India some relief from CAATSA on S-400 purchase as well.