Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Raider 21]

Hi,

In 1990s we were assured by many. Maybe you are too young to know. I can't forget the taste of the soily, brown wheat that the Americans sent in lieu of the millions of dollars earned by the sweat of Pakistanis.
Short sighted ppl can never learn from the past.
If Pak acts deftly, they may be able to pick up f-16s from third parties. This will only take Trump's approval. But Pak has to act soon before US troops all leave and nothing is left to bargain with.

We saw a smart move with the Jordanian F16s. Another deal like that and PAF can get to the ideal 100 aircraft fleet.

Those millions for PEACE GATE deals, had a lot of Saudi help and financing. That's why the first batch of jets being delivered did a mandatory stop in Saudi Arabia when the American pilots handed over to the newly qualified Pakistani Viper drivers. Anything before delivery via Saudi Arabia was on the US, after that the rest was up to Pakistanis (including the nearly fatal crash during a demo in front of the audience during the induction of Vipers).

 

[Nomad40]

Those millions for PEACE GATE deals, had a lot of Saudi help and financing. That's why the first batch of jets being delivered did a mandatory stop in Saudi Arabia when the American pilots handed over to the newly qualified Pakistani Viper drivers. Anything before delivery via Saudi Arabia was on the US, after that the rest was up to Pakistanis (including the nearly fatal crash when during a demo in front of the audience during the induction of Vipers).

Elaborate on the near fatal crash ?

 

[spectregunship]

Hello everyone....
This is my first every reply on the forum while having been a silent spectator for about over a decade. Can't make tall claims about anything but here is something I want to add : this is the final fleet of F-16s that we have and will maintain for times to come. With the kind geo-politics going around, yanks are not going to be in the mood to release or even talk about sale of big ticket weaponry let alone vipers. As mentioned earlier on this thread about 8 x Blk 52 and case in point our AH1Zs left for storage. All we can do is be happy with these 70 odd majestic machines and re-align our minds for the new decade of 2020s. As much as I love the US systems especially vipers, it is simply hard to absorb the fact but it is what it is. Cheers.

 

[baqai]

Those millions for PEACE GATE deals, had a lot of Saudi help and financing. That's why the first batch of jets being delivered did a mandatory stop in Saudi Arabia when the American pilots handed over to the newly qualified Pakistani Viper drivers. Anything before delivery via Saudi Arabia was on the US, after that the rest was up to Pakistanis (including the nearly fatal crash when during a demo in front of the audience during the induction of Vipers).

i would also like to learn about the near fatal crash

 

[Trailer23]

For as long as I can remember, every page has more or less the same conversation 'bout Pakistan's chances of acquiring additional* F-16's.

* I say additional because there is also the debate about New or Old/Used.

Regardless. the Americans have always played hardball and now realize that Pakistan is getting better at the game too.

Getting more F-16's a debate that can only be addressed after the 2020 Elections.

Pakistan is in no position to pay full price for new Block 70/72. On the flip side, i'd be interested to know what the asking price (per unit) would it cost to get some Block 25/30.

 

[Raider 21]

Elaborate on the near fatal crash ?

Viper takes off, gear down, attempts a barrel role. Disappears behind trees and then pulls up.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

These were not included in the original contract of MLU & Block-52.

 

[ziaulislam]

For as long as I can remember, every page has more or less the same conversation 'bout Pakistan's chances of acquiring additional* F-16's.

* I say additional because there is also the debate about New or Old/Used.

Regardless. the Americans have always played hardball and now realize that Pakistan is getting better at the game too.

Getting more F-16's a debate that can only be addressed after the 2020 Elections.

Pakistan is in no position to pay full price for new Block 70/72. On the flip side, i'd be interested to know what the asking price (per unit) would it cost to get some Block 25/30.

or rather Pakistan doesn't think it brings something to table which they desperately they need

this isnt the 1990s when all that china could offer were f6s/f7 radar less old vintage plans and rest of market was just france vs USA

why would Pakistan spend 4X on a sanctionable jet if it brings nothing new to the table..it wont

 

[Falcon26]

Hello everyone....
This is my first every reply on the forum while having been a silent spectator for about over a decade. Can't make tall claims about anything but here is something I want to add : this is the final fleet of F-16s that we have and will maintain for times to come. With the kind geo-politics going around, yanks are not going to be in the mood to release or even talk about sale of big ticket weaponry let alone vipers. As mentioned earlier on this thread about 8 x Blk 52 and case in point our AH1Zs left for storage. All we can do is be happy with these 70 odd majestic machines and re-align our minds for the new decade of 2020s. As much as I love the US systems especially vipers, it is simply hard to absorb the fact but it is what it is. Cheers.

Pakistan has at least $10 billion CSF funds withheld by the US. It is very likely that these funds will be released with the conclusion of the Taliban and afghan government accords. There’s no question about that. The only reason they were held was Pakistan’s inability to satisfy US conditions of bringing the Taliban to the negotiating table. This will become a mute point once a deal is reached between the Afghans. In fact, Pakistan’s value will increase given how Pakistan will become key to the success of the deal.

I wouldn’t discount another major military deal between Pakistan and the US. But it all depends on how Pakistan plays it’s card, which to be brutally honest, isn’t all that impressive.

 

[Armchair]

I think the time is now. If the Dems win, game is up for Pak anyways. So, PMIK could play this game:

1. Visit the US, get in touch with the Pak community, say good things about Trump
2. Offer a juicy trade deal "to help US industry". Trump loves to make deals.
3. Deal should be for say, 10 billion dollars (over an insane period of years, say 10 years). Buy US, x, y and z products, perhaps even steel. All these would essentially be useful for Pak and would be bought from other sources anyways. In return, get open license from Trump to purchase third party F-16s and get EDA.
As well as other NATO military gear. And get all the Afghan retreat equipment.
4. If PMIK riles up the Pakistanis for Trump, Trump is the kind of guy that doesn't forget a favour.
5. Pak target should be for an additional 100 F-16s - EDA, third party, doesn't matter where you get them from.

All this talk about waiting after the elections are by people who have no understanding of US politics.

 

[Yasser76]

I think the time is now. If the Dems win, game is up for Pak anyways. So, PMIK could play this game:

1. Visit the US, get in touch with the Pak community, say good things about Trump
2. Offer a juicy trade deal "to help US industry". Trump loves to make deals.
3. Deal should be for say, 10 billion dollars (over an insane period of years, say 10 years). Buy US, x, y and z products, perhaps even steel. All these would essentially be useful for Pak and would be bought from other sources anyways. In return, get open license from Trump to purchase third party F-16s and get EDA.
As well as other NATO military gear. And get all the Afghan retreat equipment.
4. If PMIK riles up the Pakistanis for Trump, Trump is the kind of guy that doesn't forget a favour.
5. Pak target should be for an additional 100 F-16s - EDA, third party, doesn't matter where you get them from.

All this talk about waiting after the elections are by people who have no understanding of US politics.

You are advocating cosying up to Trump 2 weeks prior to an election he may well lose. If there is one way to piss off the Biden presidency it is your suggestion above.

 

[Nomad40]

Viper takes off, gear down, attempts a barrel role. Disappears behind trees and then pulls up.

scary stuff.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan has at least $10 billion CSF funds withheld by the US. It is very likely that these funds will be released with the conclusion of the Taliban and afghan government accords. There’s no question about that. The only reason they were held was Pakistan’s inability to satisfy US conditions of bringing the Taliban to the negotiating table. This will become a mute point once a deal is reached between the Afghans. In fact, Pakistan’s value will increase given how Pakistan will become key to the success of the deal.

I wouldn’t discount another major military deal between Pakistan and the US. But it all depends on how Pakistan plays it’s card, which to be brutally honest, isn’t all that impressive.

unlikely that these will be released..do you think congress will accept such a high fund/paycheck..i think it is IMPOSSIBLE..the funds approved are less then 2 billion..


so what pakistan can do or the best case senrio would be to ask the president to use his other powers to compensate for it..for example debt writing off..

pakistan has 20b $ loan from G20 and 20+ from WB/AB/IMF..we should aim for that..get maximum debt relief

I think the time is now. If the Dems win, game is up for Pak anyways. So, PMIK could play this game:

1. Visit the US, get in touch with the Pak community, say good things about Trump
2. Offer a juicy trade deal "to help US industry". Trump loves to make deals.
3. Deal should be for say, 10 billion dollars (over an insane period of years, say 10 years). Buy US, x, y and z products, perhaps even steel. All these would essentially be useful for Pak and would be bought from other sources anyways. In return, get open license from Trump to purchase third party F-16s and get EDA.
As well as other NATO military gear. And get all the Afghan retreat equipment.
4. If PMIK riles up the Pakistanis for Trump, Trump is the kind of guy that doesn't forget a favour.
5. Pak target should be for an additional 100 F-16s - EDA, third party, doesn't matter where you get them from.

All this talk about waiting after the elections are by people who have no understanding of US politics.

best think Pakistan can do is to by pass congress..
all they need to do is get a security waiver and buy second hand f16s and conduct a structural upgrade afterwards...
TAI can help with stutural upgrades..

getting new f16s without hard cash is impossible..
getting CSF 12+b $ funds approved from congress is impossible..

 

[Falcon26]

unlikely that these will be released..do you think congress will accept such a high fund/paycheck..i think it is IMPOSSIBLE..the funds approved are less then 2 billion..


so what pakistan can do or the best case senrio would be to ask the president to use his other powers to compensate for it..for example debt writing off..

pakistan has 20b $ loan from G20 and 20+ from WB/AB/IMF..we should aim for that..get maximum debt relief

best think Pakistan can do is to by pass congress..
all they need to do is get a security waiver and buy second hand f16s and conduct a structural upgrade afterwards...
TAI can help with stutural upgrades..

getting new f16s without hard cash is impossible..
getting CSF 12+b $ funds approved from congress is impossible..

It won’t be possible. The money has already been set aside for Pakistan pursuant to state department and pentagon certification that Pakistan is bringing the Taliban to the negotiating table.

Briefing reporters, U.S. officials stressed the suspension did not affect civilian aid to Pakistan and that the money could go through if Islamabad took decisive action against the groups.

U.S. suspends at least $900 million in security aid to Pakistan

The United States said on Thursday it was suspending at least $900 million in security assistance to Pakistan until it takes action against the Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani network militant groups.

www.reuters.com

 

[ziaulislam]

You are advocating cosying up to Trump 2 weeks prior to an election he may well lose. If there is one way to piss off the Biden presidency it is your suggestion above.

the only reason trump won was he flipped three states penn, Wisconsin and Michigan, all three the lead was less then 0.8%. hiliary won majority last time as well..

so whats the situation in these three states..biden leads all of them by almost double digits.. in other words there is no math to victory for trump..

trump won on the promise of bringing back jobs..that never happened..now biden is running on the sloga..bringin back jobs"..he has several proposals in already..

20% of early votes have been casted..trump is finished..

Pakistan should focus on getting maximum benefits "from the president" any proposal involving congress or too much time should not be pursued..

that means

1. get debt written off instead of waiting for CSF to come
2. Ask for waiver to get third country f16s..this waiver is unlikely to be reversed by the new admin . Used f16 is very inticing avenue. There are several 100s of them available and parts are suppose to be available for foreseeable future ..upgrades can be done at multiple places and we hav a good infrastructure setup already ..advance weapon systems are available(if approved)