Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Haris Ali2140]

This was 10 years ago and today Indian lobby is 10 times stronger! You do not know how many important positions Indian origin hold in US government and businesses, and US is in a stage that it would never jeopardize their relationship with India.
Next time Pakistan gets something from US is when they need Pakistan to do their dirty work.

And we are doing that dirty work by bringing Talibans to table and then giving a route for US to pull out its equipment out.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Don't want to throw a spanner in already confused debate but one thing is for sure that the issue will remain in regard to paying upfront viz a viz utilizing fund money. If it ever came to materialize, the issue of money will be there.

If the issue was only money, Pakistan would not have had problem with the engines of T-129.

More than procuring F-16, Pakistan needs to procure BVR missiles for them. All of Pakistan's BVR missiles for F-16 are from a single 10 year old order. Those missiles have a shelf life. And if not replenished, would lead to a severe decrease in effectiveness of the entire fleet.

 

[airomerix]

If the issue was only money, Pakistan would not have had problem with the engines of T-129.

More than procuring F-16, Pakistan needs to procure BVR missiles for them. All of Pakistan's BVR missiles for F-16 are from a single 10 year old order. Those missiles have a shelf life. And if not replenished, would lead to a severe decrease in effectiveness of the entire fleet.

Nope.

PAF has a dedicated ordnance maintenance depot that specialized in AMRAAM back in 2006 to service AMRAAMs. Battery replacement, electronics overhaul and rocket fuel replacement (it has solid fuel) are some of the things they do. Hence Shelf life will not be an issue for decades to come.

Air life, however, might cause concerns after 10 years or so due to 1800 hrs of air life for each AMRAAM shell. And PAF cannot manufacture the missile shell and replace it. Fortunately, the rotation of missiles is a regular practice and each missile has not even reached half of 1800 hrs of flight time since induction.

 

[The Eagle]

If the issue was only money, Pakistan would not have had problem with the engines of T-129.

T-129 Engine issue is between Turkey & US. Pakistan is a customer for Turkey. Engine sale denied by US for the Turkey and Pakistan is not buying T-129 ATAK engine directly from US. I don't know what's so hard to understand in this unless you have no interest to consider the facts instead brought illogical explanation to the matter in hand. Not everything deserves denial just for the sake of it or it's about Pakistan. Also, try to search and read about last undelivered birds whereby the offer existed & approved but we didn't want to pay fully and discussed to compensate FMS/CSF.

Rest of the post is already explained by @airomerix

Regards,

 

[m52k85]

Nope.

PAF has a dedicated ordnance maintenance depot that specialized in AMRAAM back in 2006

Is it OEM supported? Rocket fuel composition is specialized, and changing that will change launch parameters..

Fortunately, the rotation of missiles is a regular practice and each missile has not even reached half of 1800 hrs of flight time since induction.

Thanks. I would hazard a guess that they wouldnt even have reached 25% since we dont see f-16s flying with live rounds in peace time, that would mean flight time wise we are safe vis carrier aircraft airframe life.

 

[KhanBaba2]

T-129 Engine issue is between Turkey & US. Pakistan is a customer for Turkey. Engine sale denied by US for the Turkey and Pakistan is not buying T-129 ATAK engine directly from US. I don't know what's so hard to understand in this unless you have no interest to consider the facts instead brought illogical explanation to the matter in hand. Not everything deserves denial just for the sake of it or it's about Pakistan. Also, try to search and read about last undelivered birds whereby the offer existed & approved but we didn't want to pay fully and discussed to compensate FMS/CSF.

Rest of the post is already explained by @airomerix

Regards,

And what about the 12 AH−1Z Viper. They have nothing to do with Turkey. And they have nothing to do with cash. You are paying the full cost for them.

I already thanked airomerix for the information he gave.

 

[StormBreaker]

And what about the 12 AH−1Z Viper. They have nothing to do with Turkey. And they have nothing to do with cash. You are paying the full cost for them.

I already thanked airomerix for the information he gave.

You will be surprised soon

@Mangus Ortus Novem IA

 

[araz]

And what about the 12 AH−1Z Viper. They have nothing to do with Turkey. And they have nothing to do with cash. You are paying the full cost for them.

I already thanked airomerix for the information he gave.

They have everything to do with cash(FMS vs sovereign funds) as did the 8F16 deal. please do not distort facts.

 

[The Eagle]

And what about the 12 AH−1Z Viper. They have nothing to do with Turkey. And they have nothing to do with cash. You are paying the full cost for them.

I already thanked airomerix for the information he gave.

Let's stop going in rounds & rounds for nothing. The topic in hand is all about F-16 purchase from US, the offer & the reason why PAF can't buy. AH-1Zs were also part of same FMS and you wouldn't ignore the fact that relations gone in shambles in past, did affect such procurement. F-16s offer remained valid for specific period and PAF was supposed to reply in Aye or Nay but the problem of funds did make it into no more F-16s. PAF argument was in view of WoT fund post Peace Gate.

They have everything to do with cash(FMS vs sovereign funds) as did the 8F16 deal. please do not distort facts.

Distort not unless satisfied, Sir.

 

[airomerix]

Is it OEM supported? Rocket fuel composition is specialized, and changing that will change launch parameters..

Yes it is 100% OEM supported.

US has not halted Pakistan's F-16 sustainment program due to strong protest lodged before buying the Block 52's back in 2005. And trust me when I say this, the guys at Lockheed were embarrassed. Their lobbies work in great favor for Pakistan in Congress to date. Some written agreements were also signed back then for continuity of sustainment program as long as Pakistan was not blacklisted or earns the status of a 'failed state'. There is a reason why keep spotting our C-130's at Denver AFB, embargo or not.

Thanks. I would hazard a guess that they wouldnt even have reached 25% since we dont see f-16s flying with live rounds in peace time, that would mean flight time wise we are safe vis carrier aircraft airframe life.

The air life is a highly classified information. We cannot know for sure if it is 25% or 50% in this point in time.

However, the best I know is, we are good to go for the next 15 years on average before the first of the missiles come close to the 1800 hrs mark. This calculation takes into account full scale standoffs with frequent CAP times.

And what about the 12 AH−1Z Viper. They have nothing to do with Turkey. And they have nothing to do with cash. You are paying the full cost for them.

I already thanked airomerix for the information he gave.

US would sell Pakistan F-35's if we had the buck.

When Congress puts embargo on Pakistan and halts such contracts, it takes a toll on US jobs. And they dont want to lose their seats in their home states.

The Zulu's are coming. Whether you like it or not.

 

[StormBreaker]

Yes it is 100% OEM supported.

US has not halted Pakistan's F-16 sustainment program due to strong protest lodged before buying the Block 52's back in 2005. And trust me when I say this, the guys at Lockheed were embarrassed. Their lobbies work in great favor for Pakistan in Congress to date. Some written agreements were also signed back then for continuity of sustainment program as long as Pakistan was not blacklisted or earns the status of a 'failed state'. There is a reason why keep spotting our C-130's at Denver AFB, embargo or not.



The air life is a highly classified information. We cannot know for sure if it is 25% or 50% in this point in time.

However, the best I know is, we are good to go for the next 15 years on average before the first of the missiles come close to the 1800 hrs mark. This calculation takes into account full scale standoffs with frequent CAP times.



US would sell Pakistan F-35's if we had the buck.

When Congress puts embargo on Pakistan and halts such contracts, it takes a toll on US jobs. And they dont want to lose their seats in their home states.

The Zulu's are coming. Whether you like it or not.

Zulus are coming very very soon right ?

Yes it is 100% OEM supported.

US has not halted Pakistan's F-16 sustainment program due to strong protest lodged before buying the Block 52's back in 2005. And trust me when I say this, the guys at Lockheed were embarrassed. Their lobbies work in great favor for Pakistan in Congress to date. Some written agreements were also signed back then for continuity of sustainment program as long as Pakistan was not blacklisted or earns the status of a 'failed state'. There is a reason why keep spotting our C-130's at Denver AFB, embargo or not.



The air life is a highly classified information. We cannot know for sure if it is 25% or 50% in this point in time.

However, the best I know is, we are good to go for the next 15 years on average before the first of the missiles come close to the 1800 hrs mark. This calculation takes into account full scale standoffs with frequent CAP times.



US would sell Pakistan F-35's if we had the buck.

When Congress puts embargo on Pakistan and halts such contracts, it takes a toll on US jobs. And they dont want to lose their seats in their home states.

The Zulu's are coming. Whether you like it or not.

And bro, kindly avoid getting into numeric details such as the matters of air life. Although not very important topic at the moment, but gives hints to others...

 

[mingle]

U do not know how much US has been Indianfied! Unless US wants to upset their big market India, no F-16s or even AH-1 from uncle sam.

India buying LCA not western Jett proved me correct with current economic crisis they can't afford any western Jett

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

If the issue was only money, Pakistan would not have had problem with the engines of T-129.

More than procuring F-16, Pakistan needs to procure BVR missiles for them. All of Pakistan's BVR missiles for F-16 are from a single 10 year old order. Those missiles have a shelf life. And if not replenished, would lead to a severe decrease in effectiveness of the entire fleet.

I hope we Get Our F16s Upgraded with AIM 120Ds.

The Zulu's are coming. Whether you like it or not.

 

[mingle]

@Khafee stands correct about Zulus I hope his other news will stand correct but instead of Blk 72 I would prefer F15E or F18 in same numbers. This will end the quest for deep strike Jett along used F16s with V upgrades. If PAF play smart we can hunt two birds with one arrow more used F16 with whole fleet V upgrade and about 36 F15E or F18super hornets for deep strike and maritime.

 

[StormBreaker]

@Khafee stands correct about Zulus I hope his other news will stand correct but instead of Blk 72 I would prefer F15E or F18 in same numbers. This will end the quest for deep strike Jett along used F16s with V upgrades. If PAF play smart we can hunt two birds with one arrow

Come on
No to F-15 or 18, for that we would need up gradations in current facilities to facilitate the maintenance as well as stock up spares in case of sanctions. Secondly, USA won’t give us such and neither do we have the capacity to buy it.

PERIOD