It's Indians pipe dream. They have little capability for manufacturing something as complex as an F-16.
Heck, they can't even maintain the Su-30s in serviceable condition, nor can they build many Tejas for any serious deployment.
Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
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It's Indians pipe dream. They have little capability for manufacturing something as complex as an F-16.
Heck, they can't even maintain the Su-30s in serviceable condition, nor can they build many Tejas for any serious deployment.
cloud4000
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LM's F-16 deal with India is an exlusive one, meant for India only. Pakistan can acquire and maintain its F-16s either directly with LM or Turkey without dealing with India. So there should be issue regarding Pakistan F-16s.
Keep thinking this way. You've been proven wrong before and you'll be proven wrong again.
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Sweden Not to Sell Gripen Fighter Planes to Pakistan
“There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons,” Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm yesterday.
Before his talks with Freivalds, Musharraf, who is currently on a tour of Scandinavian countries, said that Pakistan might be interested in purchasing JAS Gripen fighter planes from Sweden. “Pakistan is looking for a high-tech aircraft. Gripen is one of several alternatives,” he was quoted as saying by Swedish newswire TT.
Freivalds, however, said Sweden would not be considering the sale of any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Pakistan, media reports here said.....She also said the Swedish government has yet to decide whether to sell Erieye radars, which was sought to be purchased by Pakistan for its Air Force. She said a decision has to be made whether the radar came under the category of weapon. “We have yet to reach that stage,” she said.
Year --> 2004
Other Members can correct me if i'm wrong...
_____________________________________________________________
Along with the F-16, the PAF does eye SU-35, F-35 and F-22 Raptor besides some J series Chinese fifth-generation fighter jets. During the period of US sanctions, Pakistan eagerly pursued purchase of French Mirage 2000 and Swedish JAS 39 Gripen. The deal with the French could not go through mainly due to the high price tag while Sweden succumbed to US pressure. --- > Express Tribune
“There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons,” Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm yesterday.
Before his talks with Freivalds, Musharraf, who is currently on a tour of Scandinavian countries, said that Pakistan might be interested in purchasing JAS Gripen fighter planes from Sweden. “Pakistan is looking for a high-tech aircraft. Gripen is one of several alternatives,” he was quoted as saying by Swedish newswire TT.
Freivalds, however, said Sweden would not be considering the sale of any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Pakistan, media reports here said.....She also said the Swedish government has yet to decide whether to sell Erieye radars, which was sought to be purchased by Pakistan for its Air Force. She said a decision has to be made whether the radar came under the category of weapon. “We have yet to reach that stage,” she said.
Year --> 2004
Other Members can correct me if i'm wrong...
_____________________________________________________________
Along with the F-16, the PAF does eye SU-35, F-35 and F-22 Raptor besides some J series Chinese fifth-generation fighter jets. During the period of US sanctions, Pakistan eagerly pursued purchase of French Mirage 2000 and Swedish JAS 39 Gripen. The deal with the French could not go through mainly due to the high price tag while Sweden succumbed to US pressure. --- > Express Tribune
GumNaam
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The only reason we go for F16s now is because they are practically free. Even the F16s that the indian is misrepresenting as having blocked weren't actually blocked. They were willing to give it to us provided we payed for it. Well why should we pay for an F16 when we can produce 3 JF17s that is 90% as capable as the F16 for the price of one. Let's face it, we do not need the F16s any more. We are now shopping for 5th generation fighters and 5th generation the F16 IS NOT!
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Pakistan Air Force: Options And Challenges – OpEd
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16s. U.S. Air Force photo by Lawrence Crespo, Wikipedia Commons.
In today’s world, air supremacy plays a vital role in achieving Military Objectives. The Pakistan Military has always been mindful of its meager resources and preferred quality over quantity.
The Pakistan Air Force is considered one of the best in the world due to its qualitative selection and professional excellence. The maintenance of this equilibrium depends on the continuous upgrading of its fleet.
The Pakistan Air Force currently operates a fighter force comprising F-16s, Dassault Mirage IIIs and 5s, Chengdu F-7s, and JF-17s. F-16s, with their tactical nuclear delivery capabilities, play a particularly important role for Pakistan in bolstering its conventional abilities against India. The Indian lobby is trying to isolate Pakistan within Washington’s power corridors, which may jeopardize the sale of more F16 to Pakistan. If so, Pakistan should seek to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets that are far more advanced than the F-16s. The Russian-made jets could be a great asset for Pakistan Air Force.
The general comparison between the Russia’s Su-35 Fighter and America’s F-16 Fighting Falcon shows that with properly trained pilots and support from ground controllers or AWACs, the Su-35 is an extremely formidable threat to Western Aircraft.
Over the years, the F-16 has evolved from a lightweight visual range dogfighter into a potent multi-role warplane that flies a gamut of missions ranging from the suppression of enemy air defences to air superiority. Though it has been operational since 1980, the “Falcon” continues to evolve and will remain in service with the US Air Force and other militaries for decades to come.
But while the F-16 remains a potent fighter, potential adversaries have caught up—the latest Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-35 can match or exceed the Falcon in many respects. The F-16 doesn’t have the latest upgraded massive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar nor can the F-16 usually lob the AIM-120 missile from high speeds and altitudes.
The US Air Force F-16s are not currently fitted with an AESA and are at a severe disadvantage versus the Su-35 or other advanced Flanker derivatives. With an AESA, the F-16 could probably hold its own against the Su-35 at longer ranges—but it would still be a challenge. At shorter ranges, it comes down to pilot skill and the performance of each jet’s high off-boresight missiles. The advent of missiles like the R-73 and AIM-9Xhave turned visual range fights into mutually assured destruction scenarios.
While the Su-35’s thrust vectoring gives it an edge at very low speeds, it’s not an insurmountable problem for an expert F-16 pilot—who knows how to exploit his or her aircraft to the fullest—to overcome. The bottom line is that the Su-35 is an extremely capable aircraft. With regard to the F-16s or Su-35s, the matter of Pakistan of adding additional fighters to its current fleet might come down to mundane matters of what is financially feasible.
Currently, the Indian Air force (IAF) is far larger with about 740 combat aircraft versus the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) approximate 400 aircraft, but everything is not as it seems.
What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF on closer examination does not seem as overwhelming. For instance, the IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft. Their pilot training as evidenced by Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF and their maintenance crews are not as diligent. Their present Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated.
PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews.
The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet, which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots.
Pakistan, on the other hand has a better pilot-to-aircaft ratio than the IAF — meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second-hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal.
Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.
Pakistan should continue its policy of quality over quantity as it is the only way to keep an equilibrium in its hostile environment and to secure the nation’s existence. Additionally, Pakistan should keep all options open as sovereignty and independence comes first, rather than becoming affiliated to a particular group or alliance.
*Saima Ali works for Strategic Vision Institute and can be reached at saima@thesvi.org
Artle written abt 2 months ago...
eurasiareview
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16s. U.S. Air Force photo by Lawrence Crespo, Wikipedia Commons.
In today’s world, air supremacy plays a vital role in achieving Military Objectives. The Pakistan Military has always been mindful of its meager resources and preferred quality over quantity.
The Pakistan Air Force is considered one of the best in the world due to its qualitative selection and professional excellence. The maintenance of this equilibrium depends on the continuous upgrading of its fleet.
The Pakistan Air Force currently operates a fighter force comprising F-16s, Dassault Mirage IIIs and 5s, Chengdu F-7s, and JF-17s. F-16s, with their tactical nuclear delivery capabilities, play a particularly important role for Pakistan in bolstering its conventional abilities against India. The Indian lobby is trying to isolate Pakistan within Washington’s power corridors, which may jeopardize the sale of more F16 to Pakistan. If so, Pakistan should seek to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets that are far more advanced than the F-16s. The Russian-made jets could be a great asset for Pakistan Air Force.
The general comparison between the Russia’s Su-35 Fighter and America’s F-16 Fighting Falcon shows that with properly trained pilots and support from ground controllers or AWACs, the Su-35 is an extremely formidable threat to Western Aircraft.
Over the years, the F-16 has evolved from a lightweight visual range dogfighter into a potent multi-role warplane that flies a gamut of missions ranging from the suppression of enemy air defences to air superiority. Though it has been operational since 1980, the “Falcon” continues to evolve and will remain in service with the US Air Force and other militaries for decades to come.
But while the F-16 remains a potent fighter, potential adversaries have caught up—the latest Russian aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-35 can match or exceed the Falcon in many respects. The F-16 doesn’t have the latest upgraded massive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar nor can the F-16 usually lob the AIM-120 missile from high speeds and altitudes.
The US Air Force F-16s are not currently fitted with an AESA and are at a severe disadvantage versus the Su-35 or other advanced Flanker derivatives. With an AESA, the F-16 could probably hold its own against the Su-35 at longer ranges—but it would still be a challenge. At shorter ranges, it comes down to pilot skill and the performance of each jet’s high off-boresight missiles. The advent of missiles like the R-73 and AIM-9Xhave turned visual range fights into mutually assured destruction scenarios.
While the Su-35’s thrust vectoring gives it an edge at very low speeds, it’s not an insurmountable problem for an expert F-16 pilot—who knows how to exploit his or her aircraft to the fullest—to overcome. The bottom line is that the Su-35 is an extremely capable aircraft. With regard to the F-16s or Su-35s, the matter of Pakistan of adding additional fighters to its current fleet might come down to mundane matters of what is financially feasible.
Currently, the Indian Air force (IAF) is far larger with about 740 combat aircraft versus the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) approximate 400 aircraft, but everything is not as it seems.
What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF on closer examination does not seem as overwhelming. For instance, the IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft. Their pilot training as evidenced by Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF and their maintenance crews are not as diligent. Their present Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated.
PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews.
The large number of IAF crashes because of low level of maintenance crew is indicative of this acute problem with one of the highest crash rates among Air Forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet, which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots.
Pakistan, on the other hand has a better pilot-to-aircaft ratio than the IAF — meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second-hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal.
Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.
Pakistan should continue its policy of quality over quantity as it is the only way to keep an equilibrium in its hostile environment and to secure the nation’s existence. Additionally, Pakistan should keep all options open as sovereignty and independence comes first, rather than becoming affiliated to a particular group or alliance.
*Saima Ali works for Strategic Vision Institute and can be reached at saima@thesvi.org
Artle written abt 2 months ago...
eurasiareview
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You're going to be really butt hurt. At this moment the MKIs are being produce by it's own raw materials.
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proven wrong with Tejas ??
whatever he said its true, you can't prove him wrong either
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proven wrong with Tejas ??
In production, the third one was just handed over to IAF.
whatever he said its true, you can't prove him wrong either
Are you guys totally clueless as to what's happening? Dude, TATA will be raising a assembly, testing plant for Airbus's C295, it'll be the preferred partner for F16IN as well. TATA is producing modules for several OEM. Boeing Apache Block 3's fuselage will eventually only be sourced from a TATA plant in India.
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tbh it's not complicated to build the F-16 at least not the frame and some sub-sytems. the most complex parts of any fighter are the radar and engine and these will be built in the U.S
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that's what he meant to say, it's obvious that f-16 is of use without engine,avionics, frame etctbh it's not complicated to build the F-16 at least not the frame and some sub-sytems. the most complex parts of any fighter are the radar and engine and these will be built in the U.S
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Dear I checked Lockhead Martin moving it's F 16 assembly to india
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@Oscar I actually believe there is a possible gap period (in terms capability deficiency) looming in the late 2010s and early 2020s. The Block-III is not a factor yet as PAC is still in the heart of Block-II, and F-16 factor is nil at this time. Do you expect the PAF to pull the J-10 back to the table? The Chinese haven't cleared it for export, but the AESA equipped J-10C could be a viable bridge for 2019-2023 to pave for the JF-17 Block-III.
It wont happen overnite moving plant to india and assemble a plane my take is looking 8 to 10 yrs pretty much time when PAF will looking to replace MLU F16s .
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This is false and even dangerous thinking. The agreement if it occurs will be between the Indian private companies and LM. I would not underestimate the Indian privte sector and it would be perilous to do so.
A
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its your pipe dream to think india cannot built them when its already building MKI from raw meterial level go google HAL site
but then you can dream what you want but hard fact is USA and LM are in deal with india to make at least 126 Blk70/72 F16s in india for IAF of which first 18 will come from US plant where indian engineers will make them with americans to get the know how
as USA/LM is shifting entire tooling and assmbelly line and rigs and overhaul facilities and all chechink systems required to india as they want that facility which produced F16s to be used for F35 priduction ... GOT IT
last but not the least USA and LM are adament to sell F16 and other stuff like EMALS and AAG for IAC-2 aircraft carrier cause we are paying in hard cash and dont bother about soft loans ect ect
and do you know the tejas you are making fun of has
tejas MK 1 has more composites than any other fighter jet currentelli in its over all weight than typhoon
tejas MK1 has 4 channel digital FBW with RSS
tejas MK1 has HOBS & HMDS & Derby-I Derby ER - BVR combo
Teajas MK1 is also tested with Griffin and paveway 2 and spike family of LGBs, PGMs and SOMs
Tejas is now in process of intigration with IFR probe OBOGS and GaN based AESA radar
all capabillities which a certain plane still does not have in its Blk2 version but wants in its blk3 version
hope you dont find my post too revolutionarry and hot to handle ... no offence just facts
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