Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[volatile]

Hi,

The F16 was unproven when paf got it----the F7PG was unproven---the Rafale was unproven that is why paf did not buy it in 2004---the mirage 2 k was unproven in 1985-86----.

There is a long list of unproven aircraft that have become formidable fighter aircraft---.

Senor---when you buy a steak---you take the butcher's word for it---you don't stick your head in the bull's ar-se to make sure.

Nice way of putting like that , From a professional point of view 2 untested platforms did we ever inducted 2 untested almost the same time and this argument is valid, my personal opinion great loss to PAF missing out on J10B in 2006 cost was not an issue at that time but we opted for US camp as that time PAF Air chief mentioned some thing like that we have other options and US approves block 52+ .On a personal not Lock Heed Martin did they bribed some of our officials for thus ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Nice way of putting like that , From a professional point of view 2 untested platforms did we ever inducted 2 untested almost the same time and this argument is valid, my personal opinion great loss to PAF missing out on J10B in 2006 cost was not an issue at that time but we opted for US camp as that time PAF Air chief mentioned some thing like that we have other options and US approves block 52+ .On a personal not Lock Heed Martin did they bribed some of our officials for thus ?

Hi,

The U S companies don't bribe---but they offer other perks to our generals..

I think the worst mistake was not buying the Rafale in 2003-04---. Would have totally sabotaged the indian air force---they would have no where to go---a classic coupe de grace---.

That was the second failure by the paf in 18 years---the previous one was not buying the mirage 2 k when it came out----.

All the advisor told the paf buy the m2k---as a second option so that you won't get sanctions on the F16 like before---but no---paf went ahead and paif for the F16---.

Same thing---if paf had bought those m2k's in the 80's----!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Enjoy the read peole

Dynamic Duo: How the A-10 and F-35 Stealth Fighter Can Work Togeather

http://www.nationalinterest.org/blo...ow-the-10-f-35-stealth-fighter-can-work-15914

 

[IrbiS]

Is it possible to upgrade our F-16 C/D block 52 with AESA radar, if yes then is PAF willing to do it ?
@Horus @Quwa @The Eagle @Oscar @C130 @Windjammer @ACE OF THE AIR @Tank131 @Bilal Khan 777

Don't you think it's safer to spend a billion dollars buying French avionics/weopanry for JF-17 than buying 70-odd AESAs for F-16s?

Though I wouldn't mind if we somehow get U.S to pay atleast half of it

 

[ali_raza]

Hi,

The U S companies don't bribe---but they offer other perks to our generals..

I think the worst mistake was not buying the Rafale in 2003-04---. Would have totally sabotaged the indian air force---they would have no where to go---a classic coupe de grace---.

That was the second failure by the paf in 18 years---the previous one was not buying the mirage 2 k when it came out----.

All the advisor told the paf buy the m2k---as a second option so that you won't get sanctions on the F16 like before---but no---paf went ahead and paif for the F16---.

Same thing---if paf had bought those m2k's in the 80's----!!!!!!!!!!!!!

exactly all ur posts have vision in them

 

[_NOBODY_]

Don't you think it's safer to spend a billion dollars buying French avionics/weopanry for JF-17 than buying 70-odd AESAs for F-16s?

Though I wouldn't mind if we somehow get U.S to pay atleast half of it

F-16 with AESA would give us an edge over Su-30MKI. Why are you so obsessed with French equipment, after the Rafale deal French will not sell their avionics and weaponry to us. So I say that we should go for Typhoon. We can induct it in small numbers in the beginning since we would not be in a hurry to complete a squadron. If we bought Typhoon it would allow us to get our hands on Typhoon avionics and EJ-200 for JF-17. If we don't have the money then we should take soft loans from Saudi Arabia or China. As soon as the Rafale deal is signed we should go for Typhoon. Forget the French we lost them.

@MastanKhan when you replied to my previous post you never said that we should go for Typhoon or not. Besides F-16 a twin engine 4++ generation platform(except J-31) is required to counter Rafale and the only ones that are good enough are Typhoon and F-15SE. US won't sell us F-15SE so Typhoon is the only option left plus Typhoon is even superior to Rafale. I know that Typhoon is extremely expensive, if we have the money for it then it's all good but if we don't then we should take soft loans from China and Saudi Arabia.
@Horus @The Eagle @Quwa @Windjammer

 

[MastanKhan]

F-16 with AESA would give us an edge over Su-30MKI. Why are you so obsessed with French equipment, after the Rafale deal French will not sell their avionics and weaponry to us. So I say that we should go for Typhoon. We can induct it in small numbers in the beginning since we would not be in a hurry to complete a squadron. If we bought Typhoon it would allow us to get our hands on Typhoon avionics and EJ-200 for JF-17. If we don't have the money then we should take soft loans from Saudi Arabia or China. As soon as the Rafale deal is signed we should go for Typhoon. Forget the French we lost them.

@MastanKhan when you replied to my previous post you never said that we should go for Typhoon or not. Besides F-16 a twin engine 4++ generation platform(except J-31) is required to counter Rafale and the only ones that are good enough are Typhoon and F-15SE. US won't sell us F-15SE so Typhoon is the only option left plus Typhoon is even superior to Rafale. I know that Typhoon is extremely expensive, if we have the money for it then it's all good but if we don't then we should take soft loans from China and Saudi Arabia.
@Horus @The Eagle @Quwa @Windjammer

Hi,

We need to invest in the J10C---the money that is spent on the Typhoon would be too much----.

There is still around 4 years time frame---good enough time to make some serious changes.

 

[volatile]

Hi,

The U S companies don't bribe---but they offer other perks to our generals..

I think the worst mistake was not buying the Rafale in 2003-04---. Would have totally sabotaged the indian air force---they would have no where to go---a classic coupe de grace---.

That was the second failure by the paf in 18 years---the previous one was not buying the mirage 2 k when it came out----.

All the advisor told the paf buy the m2k---as a second option so that you won't get sanctions on the F16 like before---but no---paf went ahead and paif for the F16---.

Same thing---if paf had bought those m2k's in the 80's----!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes somehow we have gifted our French relationship to Indian`s (being the largest operator of Mirages we simply handed over to Indians .We as people criticize politicians and every one day in day out but these lapses can be only cause by

1. Incompetency
2. Corruption (personal gains)

Its like we like being US B1t[H all the time

 

[The Eagle]

@C130 Thank you for sharing that video, since all of our previous F-16s were upgraded to block 40 and no airframe structural modification is required for equipping SABR AESA radar to our entire F-16 fleet then why doesn't PAF go for it as it is much cheaper as compared to acquiring a new platform ?
@Horus @Quwa @The Eagle @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Windjammer @ACE OF THE AIR @Bilal Khan 777

Yes but our diplomacy and want list never persists of such requirement or in other words as @MastanKhan sir stated though a bit hard but close to truth. PAF should have gone for that not just by the way for asking but by manipulating the situation like "Ok you are not sharing what I want but tell you what I already have it from somewhere else so if you want me to be your ally then we need to sit" and things would have been changed today or could be soon however, the current Radar is yet satisfactory for the time being.

On one of your posts you wrote that PAF has money, so I say that we should go for Typhoon. We can induct it in small numbers in the beginning since we would not be in a hurry to complete a squadron. If we bought Typhoon it would allow us to get our hands on Typhoon avionics and EJ-200 for JF-17. If we don't have the money then we should take soft loans from Saudi Arabia or China. As soon as the Rafale deal is signed we should go for Typhoon.
@The Eagle @Quwa

Surely we are not bank corrupt that we don't have enough money for such necessary purchases though to me, it seems like we are kind of waiting for something that we put in cooker to melt down at our level so then the same will be decorated and served accordingly. We aren't in hurry (I know many would differ of this mind set) but as per current doctrine, we are almost par to good enough but sooner the same would be changed and we will be having advance equipment than before as per requirement but it is not going to be like bulk shopping. We do have the option of EFT and to the some extent I believe that KSA or Arab friends could be helpful in this regards but there is something else cooking down there and as I use to say PAF is full of surprises. Let the deal of Rafale be finalized and we will be seeing a counter punch for that too In'Sha'ALLAH.

IMO, more than EFT, we need to work seriously upon something like we did previously with the help of our Chinese Friends that resulted JFT, so we can have something as per our requirement, like EFT or Rafale against the money that we may spend over EFT or SUs.

 

[nomi007]

 

[_NOBODY_]

IMO, more than EFT, we need to work seriously upon something like we did previously with the help of our Chinese Friends that resulted JFT, so we can have something as per our requirement, like EFT or Rafale against the money that we may spend over EFT or SUs.

So you are saying that we should build a new fighter with Chinese or jointly develop J-31. We need another platform besides J-31 since we don't know how long it would take for J-31 to be developed.

 

[IrbiS]

F-16 with AESA would give us an edge over Su-30MKI. Why are you so obsessed with French equipment, after the Rafale deal French will not sell their avionics and weaponry to us. So I say that we should go for Typhoon. We can induct it in small numbers in the beginning since we would not be in a hurry to complete a squadron. If we bought Typhoon it would allow us to get our hands on Typhoon avionics and EJ-200 for JF-17. If we don't have the money then we should take soft loans from Saudi Arabia or China. As soon as the Rafale deal is signed we should go for Typhoon. Forget the French we lost them.

@MastanKhan when you replied to my previous post you never said that we should go for Typhoon or not. Besides F-16 a twin engine 4++ generation platform(except J-31) is required to counter Rafale and the only ones that are good enough are Typhoon and F-15SE. US won't sell us F-15SE so Typhoon is the only option left plus Typhoon is even superior to Rafale. I know that Typhoon is extremely expensive, if we have the money for it then it's all good but if we don't then we should take soft loans from China and Saudi Arabia.
@Horus @The Eagle @Quwa @Windjammer

AESA wud be a superb booster for F-16 that we both agree upon, but paying a billion from own pocket for 'em doesn't sound good. I'm all for SABR but if I got only enough cash to invest on one platform, I will not put my eggs in U.S basket.

I'm not obsessed with french equipment and personally prefer EF over Rafale for Pakistan AirForce's requirments. But trust me the PAF will get western equipment the moment they can get their hands on and ditch Chinese. They will most likely buy French and may be trying to work out something with French even as I write. Maybe a combination of Chinese AESA with MBDA Meteor could be on the table or whole western package.

All in all, no matter how much we talk about a new platform, PAF ain't buying at least for now. They are gonna match RAFALE/ FLANKER with beefed up JF-17 and that's all. If u saw Air Chief's 23rd march interview, his body-language was clear that PAF's next fighter will be at-least a top notch 5th gen. fighter in the class of F-22 or J-20, or 6th gen. aircraft. 'When' is another question.

 

[_NOBODY_]

AESA wud be a superb booster for F-16 that we both agree upon, but paying a billion from own pocket for 'em doesn't sound good. I'm all for SABR but if I got only enough cash to invest on one platform, I will not put my eggs in U.S basket.

I'm not obsessed with french equipment and personally prefer EF over Rafale for Pakistan AirForce's requirments. But trust me the PAF will get western equipment the moment they can get their hands on and ditch Chinese. They will most likely buy French and may be trying to work out something with French even as I write. Maybe a combination of Chinese AESA with MBDA Meteor could be on the table or whole western package.

All in all, no matter how much we talk about a new platform, PAF ain't buying at least for now. They are gonna match RAFALE/ FLANKER with beefed up JF-17 and that's all. If u saw Air Chief's 23rd march interview, his body-language was clear that PAF's next fighter will be at-least a top notch 5th gen. fighter in the class of F-22 or J-20, or 6th gen. aircraft. 'When' is another question.

But ever since the Rafale deal French won't offer us their avionics and weapons however Selex is willing to offer us their equipment, we should go for Selex unless Chinese have something better to offer.

 

[Windjammer]

The afterburner in the F-16 also acts as a brute force as seen here, even with afterburner engaged the speed remains minimal which is apparent from the smoke blowing out of the winders.

 

[MastanKhan]

AESA wud be a superb booster for F-16 that we both agree upon, but paying a billion from own pocket for 'em doesn't sound good. I'm all for SABR but if I got only enough cash to invest on one platform, I will not put my eggs in U.S basket.

I'm not obsessed with french equipment and personally prefer EF over Rafale for Pakistan AirForce's requirments. But trust me the PAF will get western equipment the moment they can get their hands on and ditch Chinese. They will most likely buy French and may be trying to work out something with French even as I write. Maybe a combination of Chinese AESA with MBDA Meteor could be on the table or whole western package.

All in all, no matter how much we talk about a new platform, PAF ain't buying at least for now. They are gonna match RAFALE/ FLANKER with beefed up JF-17 and that's all. If u saw Air Chief's 23rd march interview, his body-language was clear that PAF's next fighter will be at-least a top notch 5th gen. fighter in the class of F-22 or J-20, or 6th gen. aircraft. 'When' is another question.

Hi,

Really---you are not IMPRESSED with French equipment---wow.

How can pakistan ditch the chinese---that is their life line---and who is going to protect you.

Did you think about what you wrote?