Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Donatello]

France..!!


I think among the arms selling nations, France is more commercial than political..!!

Actually it's the other way round........they always involve politics....not to mention their dealings with the PPP government in Pakistan.

 

[rizhussain44]

Does anyone know when are we receiving the 2nd batch of our Block 52 F16, I guess they were due in August.

 

[air marshal]

New F-16s moved to air base near Quetta

ISLAMABAD: Three of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s newest acquisitions Block 52 F-16 jet fighters – previously stationed at the Shahbaz airbase near Jacobabad – have been moved to the Samungli airbase near Quetta, sources told The Express Tribune on Saturday. The Shahbaz base was under the threat of being flooded in August. The exact date on which the jets were flown to Quetta could not be ascertained.

However, an official said that the jets will be moved back to the Shahbaz airbase as soon the flood situation improves.

The report said that some members of the technical support team from the Lockheed Martin (the aircraft manufacturer and other officials of the US Air Force, had left the Shahbaz airbase for Quetta, but other members are still there.

Federal Health Secretary Kamran Lashari told a Senate committee last month that the US presence at the base was preventing its use for flood relief operations in Sindh. The PAF and the US Embassy had strongly rejected the statement.

The flood threat was averted because of a comprehensive plan to secure the Shahbaz airbase soon after the floodwaters entered Punjab.

According to the safety plan, the authorities had dug up a canal around the base to prevent the floodwaters from entering the aircraft hangars. Over 22 water lifting pumps are dumping back the floodwaters from the canal back into the Indus River. The base is safe and secure because of this extraordinary safety plan, built with the financial and technical assistance of the US at a cost of millions of dollars.

The fleet of F-16 aircraft arrived in June at the newly-upgraded base, which is under the PAF’s Southern Air Command. Earlier, the base, was being used as a Forward Operating Base by the PAF, but very recently it has been upgraded to house the new F-16 aircraft by installing equipment and radar system.

New F-16s moved to air base near Quetta – The Express Tribune

 

[aliyusuf]

Express Tribune was the only source which had (sometimes back) reported that the 4th Block-52 F-16 had arrived.

Now in this current report it is stating 3 planes have been shifted to safety.

Why can't it make up it's mind?

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Air Force
Block 52 F-16s

F-16C
Serial..........C/n..........USAF Serial (for purpose of delivery)..........Delivered
10901........JE-1........07-0001
10902........JE-2........07-0002
10903........JE-3........07-0003
10904........JE-4........07-0004
10905........JE-5........07-0005
10906........JE-6........07-0006
10907........JE-7........07-0007
10908........JE-8........07-0008
10909........JE-9........07-0009
10910........JE-10......07-0010
10911........JE-11......07-0011
10912........JE-12......07-0012

F-16-D
10801..........JF-1...........07-0013
10802..........JF-2...........07-0014
10803..........JF-3...........07-0015
10804..........JF-4...........07-0016
10805..........JF-5...........07-0017
10806..........JF-6...........07-0018

 

[rockstarIN]

Actually it's the other way round........they always involve politics....not to mention their dealings with the PPP government in Pakistan.

See, if you compare with other arms supplying nations in the west, France is more commercial than US, UK and others. Remember France stopped discussions with Pakistan for JF-17 missiles only when India signed up for Mirage upgradations. US & UK can block and impose arms embargo at any time.

 

[Quwa]

See, if you compare with other arms supplying nations in the west, France is more commercial than US, UK and others. Remember France stopped discussions with Pakistan for JF-17 missiles only when India signed up for Mirage upgradations. US & UK can block and impose arms embargo at any time.

France didn't block anything, this was confirmed on AFM.

 

[fatman17]

France didn't block anything, this was confirmed on AFM.

MS, the french did 'delay' the delivery of 40 Mirages upgraded by Sagem for a few months as a result of the nuclear tests but later relented.

 

[Quwa]

MS, the french did 'delay' the delivery of 40 Mirages upgraded by Sagem for a few months as a result of the nuclear tests but later relented.

I was referring to the current negotiations on radar & missile for JF-17, the French didn't block anything in recent years (i.e. since 2007) in this regard. As far as I know, the PAF is still talking to them, albeit with greater emphasis on securing a package for export JF-17s than PAF variants. This would significantly lessen the weight on France's shoulders, as it is a pretty big gain for them, i.e. to market their brands further, to be able to have a slice of the export cake (particularly if Egypt buys), and not worry about selling to PAF.

My understanding is that PAF JF-17s will use domestically produced systems developed jointly between Pakistani and foreign firms - everything from radar, to ECM/EW, avionics, weapon-systems, etc. The JF-17s in PAF will be quite different from the types offered by CAC or the export-packages agreed upon with the West. I expect cooperation in this regard to be done with newer partners such as Turkey's Aselsan, South Africa's Denel, Brazil's Mectron, China's CETC, etc than our traditional European ones. Although some European assistance might be sought, namely from Selex Galileo I'd think.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Does anyone know when are we receiving the 2nd batch of our Block 52 F16, I guess they were due in August.

Yes it was planned in Aug, but the flood in Jacawabad holded the delivery.
Hopefully we will see 8 new F-16's coming in October 10

 

[rockstarIN]

I was referring to the current negotiations on radar & missile for JF-17, the French didn't block anything in recent years (i.e. since 2007) in this regard. As far as I know, the PAF is still talking to them, albeit with greater emphasis on securing a package for export JF-17s than PAF variants. This would significantly lessen the weight on France's shoulders, as it is a pretty big gain for them, i.e. to market their brands further, to be able to have a slice of the export cake (particularly if Egypt buys), and not worry about selling to PAF.

My understanding is that PAF JF-17s will use domestically produced systems developed jointly between Pakistani and foreign firms - everything from radar, to ECM/EW, avionics, weapon-systems, etc. The JF-17s in PAF will be quite different from the types offered by CAC or the export-packages agreed upon with the West. I expect cooperation in this regard to be done with newer partners such as Turkey's Aselsan, South Africa's Denel, Brazil's Mectron, China's CETC, etc than our traditional European ones. Although some European assistance might be sought, namely from Selex Galileo I'd think.

If your point is right (negotiations on radar & missile for JF-17 with France is still on ), then it proves my argument (that France is more commercial than political) is correct.

By the way, which French A2As Pakistan looking for JF-17? Matra 550?

 

[Quwa]

If your point is right (negotiations on radar & missile for JF-17 with France is still on ), then it proves my argument (that France is more commercial than political) is correct.

By the way, which French A2As Pakistan looking for JF-17? Matra 550?

MICA-IR/RF as initially stated by Thales & MBDA at IDEAS 2008 and upheld in all publications to date (including Janes, AFM, etc).

That said, although PAF is emphasizing on the wider-commercial aspect of the deal with France, it doesn't discount PAF from itself acquiring a limited number of MICA-IR/RF for its JF-17. Diversity of systems is good, and they're matured options as well.

 

[John Doe]

$161M in Enhanced Paveway Kits for… Whom?

Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ recently received a $161.3 million contract modification to provide Enhanced Paveway II, III and GPS adapter kits, kit spares, adapter groups, readiness test sets, bomb tool kits, enhanced paveway tool sets, CAMBRE adapter kits, and mission planning software. At this time, all funds have been committed by the OO-ALC/GHGKB at Hill AFB, UT (FA8213-08-C-0028).

While “Paveway” is a semi-generic term for American laser-guided bomb designs, Enhanced Paveway is a more specific term. Those Raytheon kits that fit onto standard bomb bodies and provide dual-mode GPS/INS and laser guidance. The combination allows laser’s improved accuracy, while allowing use in sandstorms, fog, and other conditions that defeat laser guidance. Lockheed Martin’s counterpart is the DMLGB. The flip side of their improved performance is that these kits are more expensive than plain JDAM GPS/INS kits.

Subsequent conversations with Raytheon clarified several things about this sale. CAMBRE is a computerized piece of test equipment that also allows Raytheon to introduce software upgrades. The customer for this sale is not the USAF, but a Foreign Military Sale client that Raytheon “is not at liberty to disclose.” An FMS client rules out the Dutch, who are buying their Enhanced Paveways via Direct Commercial Sale. Based on US DSCA notifications, Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates have each submitted requests for 1,600 Enhanced Paveway bomb kits, as armament for their respective F-16 fleets.

 

[John Doe]

More on CAMBRE:

ATK Missile Systems Co. Integrated Systems Division of Clearwater, Fla., is being awarded a modified contract for $9,234,375. This action exercises options to procure multiple Common Munitions Built-In-Test Reprogrammable Equipment (CAMBRE) Plus units and to modify CMBRE units to a CMBRE Plus configuration. CMBRE’s Plus is designed to interface with Munitions in an Air Force backshop/flightline or Navy carrier deck environment. CAMBRE Plus will support the fielding of the next generation AMRAAM and Small Diameter Bomb Munitions and allow the war fighter to maintain one configuration for maximum War Fighter flexibility. W-23 Cables (also part of this contract mod) support simultaneous testing of four AMRAAM missiles at one time (which saves time). This action exercising options to purchase 37 CMBRE Plus’s; Data for CMBRE Plus Production; 175 Modifications of CMBRE units to CMBRE Plus; 9 W-23 cables; and 6 Initial Spares through the CMBRE Program Office at WPAFB, Ohio (ASC/647 AESS). At this time $9,234,375 has been obligated. Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8626-06-C-2060, P00010).