Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Kompromat]

yea...our current f-16s r blind at night

They ain't Blind but their Capability is limited in night sorties.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistani pilots complete training in the US


May 2, 2010 (by Asif Shamim) - Eight experienced Pakistan Air Force pilots, who have flown the F-16A/B, recently learned to fly the newer C/D model aircraft at the 162nd Fighter Wings, international F-16 training unit at Tucson International Airport.

The graduation ceremony will be held at Pima Air and Space Museum on Tuesday, May 4.

Guest speakers include Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, the Pakistan Air Force deputy chief of staff, and Brig. Gen. Lyn D. Sherlock, the director of regional affairs, Office of the Deputy Under Secretary of the Air Force for International Affairs.

The pilots are the first to train in the US since the last Pakistani class was completed in 1983 at Luke AFB.

"This graduation is historic for U.S.-Pakistan relations," said Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Ghazanfar Latif, a 12-year F-16A pilot. "For Pakistan, our air force is gaining capabilities that it has needed for the last decade; capabilities that are critical to ongoing operations in Pakistan's war on terror."

Pakistan has recently purchased 18 of the latest F-16C block 52 aircraft and is in the process of upgrading its 30 year old fleet of F-16s to the MLU standard. The block 52s allow pilots to conduct night operations and handle enhanced precision munitions.

The first four block 52s are due to arrive in country on June 26th at Shahbaz Air Base in the South-west province of Sindh.

In preparation for the June delivery, the eight pilots took on seven months of training in Tucson that included a transition course from the F-16A/B to the F-16C/D, flight lead upgrade training and instructor pilot certification so they can return home and teach others to fly the new F-16s.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4080.html

 

[F86 Saber]

Lanat hey!!

+ asay F16s par lanat jo koom ki aabro aur independent mulk kudh ko kahtay aur chaltay America kay kehnay pe ham kyoo unko idar anay den hamnay F16 maangay thay saath 50 Military walay nahe ... lanat Musharaf par jo mulk ko baech kar chala gaya hey!!! lanat asay F16s par inka kya karna hey jab kudh ko unkay haath may dayrakha hey!!!

Dude do you think uncle SAM needs an excuse to send troops to Pakistan? The last 200 troops brought nothing at least these 50 are bringing us 4 f-16s.

BTW off topic but i don't think it's Musharrafs fault, infact if someone is to be blamed for this than we should blame our initial policies of joining hands with USA instead of Russia.

 

[Patriot]

F-16A are not blind during night.It's just that the accuracy would not be that good for A2G but with sniper pod it should be better.Also F16 can perform A2A 24/7 all type of weathers.F-16 intercepted INdian UAV at night in 2002.

 

[All-Green]

Lanat hey!!

+ asay F16s par lanat jo koom ki aabro aur independent mulk kudh ko kahtay aur chaltay America kay kehnay pe ham kyoo unko idar anay den hamnay F16 maangay thay saath 50 Military walay nahe ... lanat Musharaf par jo mulk ko baech kar chala gaya hey!!! lanat asay F16s par inka kya karna hey jab kudh ko unkay haath may dayrakha hey!!!

My friend did you personally oversee the transaction terms that you know explicitly what we asked for and what we did not ask for?
I am saying this because this is something every country wants from the supplier, over here our media is making sure that even this normal thing seems as a secret plan of Uncle Sam.

Do you know that this is something normal and not out of the ordinary, be it US, China, France, there always was a presence of relevant support staff till some key induction milestones were achieved.

If the news is indeed true then there is no need to panic or be angered about.
The technicians and support staff are actually more needed by Pakistan to ensure a seamless and risk free transition onto these new birds.
I suggest you stop with the laan taan.

Does a 50 man strong team of technical and support staff pose such a risk to Pakistan or its sovereignty, when they shall be stationed in a remote and secure airbase?

We have thousands of openly anti state elements being sympathized by and even supported by our so called fundamentalists in the streets, still we are surviving...
In comparison what harm can 50 odd technical staff do to Pakistan when they shall be under the watchful eyes of our military and when their objective is to assist us in induction of US manufactured fighter jets?

Even in the telecommunications sector, when we buy some brand new and expensive equipment we really want the relevant vendor experts to come and stay in country for some time to see through the induction of equipment and provide support.

No need to get worked up over this, it is nothing out of the ordinary.
Certain circles in our media are always trying to create controversy and come up with breaking spicy news.

 

[Patriot]

Well i think its not such a good situation..LM Employees managed to disable Iranian F-14's (A lot of them) during War so what if the employees disable F-16 during war.PAF Intelligence Unit should keep a good look at these people.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

F-16A are not blind during night.It's just that the accuracy would not be that good for A2G but with sniper pod it should be better.Also F16 can perform A2A 24/7 all type of weathers.F-16 intercepted INdian UAV at night in 2002.

Yes F-16s are not blind at night with the use of NVG and ATLIS pod limited night mission capability is provided in AG role. the A/B block 15 are not capable of using Sniper pods in fact only when they are upgraded to block 52 level.

 

[peacemaker10]

Well i think its not such a good situation..LM Employees managed to disable Iranian F-14's (A lot of them) during War so what if the employees disable F-16 during war.PAF Intelligence Unit should keep a good look at these people.

I don't think there is anything to worry about. It is just to satisfy the congress. Everyone one knows once the planes are with PAF after some time no one cares what they are doing.

Pakistan is no Iran, so not easy to disable planes just like that.

 

[Rank]

My friend did you personally oversee the transaction terms that you know explicitly what we asked for and what we did not ask for?
I am saying this because this is something every country wants from the supplier, over here our media is making sure that even this normal thing seems as a secret plan of Uncle Sam.

Do you know that this is something normal and not out of the ordinary, be it US, China, France, there always was a presence of relevant support staff till some key induction milestones were achieved.

If the news is indeed true then there is no need to panic or be angered about.
The technicians and support staff are actually more needed by Pakistan to ensure a seamless and risk free transition onto these new birds.
I suggest you stop with the laan taan.

Does a 50 man strong team of technical and support staff pose such a risk to Pakistan or its sovereignty, when they shall be stationed in a remote and secure airbase?

We have thousands of openly anti state elements being sympathized by and even supported by our so called fundamentalists in the streets, still we are surviving...
In comparison what harm can 50 odd technical staff do to Pakistan when they shall be under the watchful eyes of our military and when their objective is to assist us in induction of US manufactured fighter jets?

Even in the telecommunications sector, when we buy some brand new and expensive equipment we really want the relevant vendor experts to come and stay in country for some time to see through the induction of equipment and provide support.

No need to get worked up over this, it is nothing out of the ordinary.
Certain circles in our media are always trying to create controversy and come up with breaking spicy news.

These are not only 50's already bunch of US military in Pakistan bases ... Question is "WHY" ?????

Where is American forces owned BASE in India ? No They are promoting India in every sector either its telecom, Miltiary, Media in every sector and on the other side they are continously pushing us in the hell from last 10 years.... seriously these 100 F16s cant do anything when leadership almost biki hoiee!

 

[All-Green]

These are not only 50's already bunch of US military in Pakistan bases ... Question is "WHY" ?????

Where is American forces owned BASE in India ? No They are promoting India in every sector either its telecom, Miltiary, Media in every sector and on the other side they are continously pushing us in the hell from last 10 years.... seriously these 100 F16s cant do anything when leadership almost biki hoiee!

Why?
Because we permitted them to be present here.
Because we have been having close ties with them since the 1950s!
Like it or not, be it PPP, PML-N, Dictators, Islamist political parties etc.
all have been dealing with USA in one way or another...only for the consumption of the nation they utter some criticism of the USA...it is all for show so as to detach themselves from the reality that our problems are due to our own failings.
What stopped us from establishing a clear cut strategic relationship on our own terms with USA?
Maybe we did bargain but always acted immaturely or without thinking things through.
Do we feel that we gained nothing from our previous treaties with USA?

Why did Ayub and Musharraf era bring in prosperity for the most part despite direct dealings with USA?
Did both these men not make poor personal choices which made them unpopular and had a negative impact; rather than USA directly causing a down slide?
Had both of them done some homework on the internal affairs they would still be very popular.

Malaysian leader Mahathir Mohamad was extremely critical of many of USA's policies but Malaysia did a lot of business with USA in his tenure...there has to be a balanced approach and one can deal with any country.

USA is a multicultural country with many millions of Muslims in it, many of our own relatives would be living in this country...attributing all evil in the world with USA is just not true...in the end they try to serve their interest...the onus lies onto us to ensure that we develop a mutually beneficial relationship, otherwise we should not have ever dealt with them.
Pakistan did gain a lot in the 60s but later threw it away due to the adventure in 65, 71 had nothing to do with USA but was our own failure.
In Afghan Jihad, it was Zia who made the biggest blunder of setting up permanent indoctrination centers and bases, for foreign and local fighters...
Why no one raised their voices then?
Because it was in the name of Islam...sadly the bases established in the name of Islam are never abandoned but multiply...much to our dismay.

USA was clear that nuclear weapons acquisition by Pakistan was not acceptable to it and thus occurred the famous 90s era cold shoulder which indeed was too cold, however we should have seen it coming ourselves too.
Why did we act surprised when we knew it was something USA openly opposed?
We should have accepted it as a cost we were willing to bear, however we as a nation do not want such burdens, we always try to blame others even if what they do is what they already have forewarned about.
The reason is that whenever we are asked to make a sacrifice we see our leaders in a different boat...in the end we care naught for such causes when our leaders do not sacrifice anything and ask of us all that we can do.

Now i am not saying USA is all that is good in this world, USA has made really poor choices in the past like any other country in order to serve their own interest, being a superpower their poor choices result in a global aftershock...however that is not what i am trying to defend at all...
What i am saying is that Pakistan did gain a lot in the past when it had close ties with USA so to say that we gained nothing is incorrect and contrary to the reality.

The leadership in Pakistan has been poor and sadly the average man in the street is yet to think beyond the USA bogey.

There are some questions that need to be processed by us and sincere answers need to be sought.

If we part ways with USA today, do you think our socioeconomic problems will go away?
Do you think the militants and terrorists will vanish if USA and Pakistan do not engage in any relationship?
If our internal leadership and government is strong do you feel that we can gain nothing by engaging USA in any strategic relationship whatsoever?
Should we trust the same Jamaat Islami, Jamiat Ulema Islam and all such factions which are not just anti US but extremely pro Taliban?


As you say our leadership is poor, i agree with you.
However would we better off with just this poor leadership alone or at least some cash inflow and items including F-16s etc. which can be used for benefit of Pakistan?
Mind you even in absence of USA our leadership will act the same and enjoy same luxuries, only we shall feel the pang of further economic deprivation...in my humble opinion.

To me any covert threat that US presence poses can be managed, the TTP and such rogues can never be managed in the same manner.

 

[Rank]

@All-Green

Exactly you are right but i am not agree on this (about Taliban terriorist game) this BS made by US thats it... The Real Talibans have no interest with Pakistan they are freedom fighters and who invade thr country they will defintly defend and i am with THEM!

About those whom called "PAKISTANI TALIBANS" lol i always laugh on this statement Pakistani Talibans lol thr is no such talibans exsist in Pakistan they are funded terrorist and funds provide from Afghanistan under US umbrella (with the collaboration of International agencies like RAW, MOSSAD, CIA and rest of others related all those orgniazations who want to destablize Pakistan include (USA). If you are really interested in so called "Relationship" with Pakistan why we always suffer for military equipment ? loOk India dont have any threat but US offering state of the art weapons. Our economy crisis starts from 2007 not before we have very strong economy from 2002-2006. But US never offer us any weapon why ? just rest of 4 F16s. How anyone believe that these Block 52 F16s will deliver @ time ? no no one can and only 18 F16s cant do anything if we will go for any long scale war against our enemy thats the big "Question Mark".

I am not Anti American even i am working in US firm. US people are really good actually i am damn against thr govt (full Zionist lobbies + now India interfernce). Look what happend with K.Bill ?? Bill belongs to Pakistan and Pakistan not even in debate when this K.bill under process. Anyway this debate never end just simply. We must out of this US lovly dovly relationship or make some rules in favour of our country.

 

[bilal1219]

@All-Green

Exactly you are right but i am not agree on this (about Taliban terriorist game) this BS made by US thats it... The Real Talibans have no interest with Pakistan they are freedom fighters and who invade thr country they will defintly defend and i am with THEM!

About those whom called "PAKISTANI TALIBANS" lol i always laugh on this statement Pakistani Talibans lol thr is no such talibans exsist in Pakistan they are funded terrorist and funds provide from Afghanistan under US umbrella (with the collaboration of International agencies like RAW, MOSSAD, CIA and rest of others related all those orgniazations who want to destablize Pakistan include (USA). If you are really interested in so called "Relationship" with Pakistan why we always suffer for military equipment ? loOk India dont have any threat but US offering state of the art weapons. Our economy crisis starts from 2007 not before we have very strong economy from 2002-2006. But US never offer us any weapon why ? just rest of 4 F16s. How anyone believe that these Block 52 F16s will deliver @ time ? no no one can and only 18 F16s cant do anything if we will go for any long scale war against our enemy thats the big "Question Mark".

I am not Anti American even i am working in US firm. US people are really good actually i am damn against thr govt (full Zionist lobbies + now India interfernce). Look what happend with K.Bill ?? Bill belongs to Pakistan and Pakistan not even in debate when this K.bill under process. Anyway this debate never end just simply. We must out of this US lovly dovly relationship or make some rules in favour of our country.

STEALTH BRO.. i support YOU 110%. These are the words of my mouth

 

[laiqs@mi]

@ Stealth

 

[razgriz19]

F-16A are not blind during night.It's just that the accuracy would not be that good for A2G but with sniper pod it should be better.Also F16 can perform A2A 24/7 all type of weathers.F-16 intercepted INdian UAV at night in 2002.

i kno that but our f-16s dont perform any ground attack sorties at night. upgraded mirage 5 perform them..
so thats why i said they r basically blind or u can say not "accurate"...

 

[All-Green]

@All-Green

Exactly you are right but i am not agree on this (about Taliban terriorist game) this BS made by US thats it... The Real Talibans have no interest with Pakistan they are freedom fighters and who invade thr country they will defintly defend and i am with THEM!

About those whom called "PAKISTANI TALIBANS" lol i always laugh on this statement Pakistani Talibans lol thr is no such talibans exsist in Pakistan they are funded terrorist and funds provide from Afghanistan under US umbrella (with the collaboration of International agencies like RAW, MOSSAD, CIA and rest of others related all those orgniazations who want to destablize Pakistan include (USA). If you are really interested in so called "Relationship" with Pakistan why we always suffer for military equipment ? loOk India dont have any threat but US offering state of the art weapons. Our economy crisis starts from 2007 not before we have very strong economy from 2002-2006. But US never offer us any weapon why ? just rest of 4 F16s. How anyone believe that these Block 52 F16s will deliver @ time ? no no one can and only 18 F16s cant do anything if we will go for any long scale war against our enemy thats the big "Question Mark".

I am not Anti American even i am working in US firm. US people are really good actually i am damn against thr govt (full Zionist lobbies + now India interfernce). Look what happend with K.Bill ?? Bill belongs to Pakistan and Pakistan not even in debate when this K.bill under process. Anyway this debate never end just simply. We must out of this US lovly dovly relationship or make some rules in favour of our country.

Stealth, the TTP is a fallout of our past mistakes, the sooner we realize this the better off we shall be.
It is an extremely bitter pill to swallow but you tell me what is the history of Lashkar e Jhangvi whose members now fill the ranks of TTP?
You know what this Laskhar has been doing much before 2001?
Why was it not dismembered and terminated by Pakistan?
Who was Riaz Basra and what did he do?
Who offered protection to him in Afghanistan?
You read about this all and you will see why i am fed up of our people blaming USA and not seeing what actually happened was due to Pakistan's policy mistakes and lack of resolve to tackle extremism when it started taking root in the country.

It pains me to see that our youth miss the part where Pakistan itself axed its foot, we have tolerated such nonsense in our country since decades without taking these extremists on.

When i was a kid and the Afghan Jihad was ongoing, the threat posed by the extremists coming into Pakistan was something which caused great concern to many educated Pakistanis, however Zia thought he could control it and use the situation in his favor, which he did by promoting religious parties in politics, parties which now openly support the local Taliban despite their terrorism inside Pakistan. Parties which always blame the government of Pakistan and USA for all the wrongs...parties which have done absolutely nothing for Pakistan.

The 70s and 80s saw an influx of extremism in Pakistan, who allowed this influx, who facilitated the extremist views?
Did Pakistan have naught to do with it?

Why would they fight us when we did not fight them?
They had it easy in the 80s and 90s when they established a foothold and no real tabs were kept on them.
They thought they had found an ally in Pakistan, it was just that Pakistan just let it all slide for fear of a conflict...Pakistan did not act because it thought these guys could be controlled and will not turn on their hosts.
Now we pay the price for our negligence and suffer because they are deeply embedded in many areas, had we not acted even now; i am afraid it would have become pointless to act.
Even now, it shall be a close shave.

Kerry Luger Bill is a bill for the US parliament, it is not binding on Pakistan!
We can go against the clauses if we want, however there really is nothing wrong with the bill if we review what our own Government was projecting at the time.
When our own government cited the fear that democracy is threatened because USA prefers to deal with dictators, this was factored in the Bill, should i cry foul about this?

For fear of further derailment, i have kept this short.
Do PM me if you want to discuss it further or let me know and we can take it up further on a relevant thread.

All the best
AG.