Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

truthfollower · Jun 3, 2021

Hodor said:
If the target is aerial and obviously moving then no its not easy or dare I say possible to locate it without a direct or indirect radar feed, you can try the coordinates ( if from awacs But then radar is involved ) and if from ground units then by the time they give you the coordinates the enemy Aircraft would have changed its coordinates with respect to bullseye..you can only locate it via coordinates if the target is static OR you are in IAF, then you can be lucky enough to locate it via TGP feed only..

thank you for detailed answer

Sayfullah · Jun 3, 2021

araz said:
I think the oulays are such that PAF would not want to convert all of their block 15s to 52 standard even if it could be done.

Why not?

araz said:
HPs

What’s that?

iLION12345_1 · Jun 3, 2021

Jf-17 block 3 said:
Why not?

What’s that?

HP means Hardpoints.

Reichmarshal · Jun 3, 2021

iLION12345_1 said:
They cannot do that without US permission either.

I am aware of the upgrades. Pakistan purchased the MLU M3 Tape kits (63 of them) and radars for these itself before these were sent to Turkey. These F-16s also got structural upgrades
I’m not “getting my info” from anywhere as there was nothing that needed a source. What I said was correct. They cannot upgrade anything without US permission (at least not for a foreign customer). These upgrades happened with US permission.
Pakistan wanted to get ToT and do them locally but was denied permission.

Actually the American were all for it until turkey changed their mind and it eventually took place in turkey.

Signalian · Jun 3, 2021

Hodor said:
Is SNIPER IRST capable? That doesn't look like Sniper in the picture you posted.

Also as per my understanding, IRST is only used with sidewinders as the whole objective is to locate and target Stealth aircrafts that cannot be targeted via radar missiles such as aim120..

When you lock a target from the radar you can then see it on the MFD via TGP feed..like the pictures you posted

@Signalian A bit of technical side, you might be able to locate the target via Datalink, bull's-eye coordinates , bore sight, IRST , buddy, awacs or ground radars but at the end of the day you need a radar to fire the weapon be it your own radar or from support, you cannot take out the target without the use of radar ( be it directly or indirectly ) until the weapon goes pitbull. Radar will be involved one way or another unless its a WVR fight... that's my understanding..

I am not talking about AG operations here of course..

Also dont forget, if you turn off your radar you wont be able to see the other guy as well.. yes your buddies can help you but in a battle things aren't that simple. Turning off your radar can only help you against a SAM and that too in certain scenarios only.

If you would become invisible by just turning off your radar then combat aviation would be a totally different thing..

SNIPER has FLIR.
AMRAAM has own seeker which can get activated at the final stage while it receives all info through data link, so may not need aircraft's radar.

Metal 0-1 · Jun 3, 2021

Signalian said:
SNIPER has FLIR.
AMRAAM has own seeker which can get activated at the final stage while it receives all info through data link, so may not need aircraft's radar.

AMRAAM is radar guided/Fox-3 missile.

Fighter jet radar locks on bandit. It requires a lock from jet radar until it goes Pitbull. As soon as it goes Pitbull onboard radar independently track target.

Fox-2 Missiles are IR guided. Like Aim-9. They have IR seeker which locks on IR spectrum of heat signature of enemy aircraft. They don't require radar. But they are WVR missiles.

Signalian · Jun 3, 2021

Metal 0-1 said:
AMRAAM is radar guided/Fox-3 missile.

Fighter jet radar locks on bandit. It requires a lock from jet radar until it goes Pitbull. As soon as it goes Pitbull onboard radar independently track target.

Fox-2 Missiles are IR guided. Like Aim-9. They have IR seeker which locks on IR spectrum of heat signature of enemy aircraft. They don't require radar. But they are WVR missiles.

AM I not understanding it correctly ?

"
Once the electromagnetically silent F-16s are within range, they can create their own engagement quality target tracks without turning on their own radars, even guiding AIM-120 AMRAAMs onto their targets via their IRST's targeting information. By the time the missile's own radar activates, it is too late for the enemy, in seconds they would be destroyed by F-16s they never new were there, all the while thinking the F-15s were still well outside of their own AIM-120 AMRAAM's engagement range. "

Infrared Search And Track Systems And The Future Of The US Fighter Force

Lockheed has a new modular sensor system for combat aircraft dubbed the "Legion Pod" that aims at plugging a major hole in US air warfare capability. It provides a bolt-on Infrared Search and Track (IRST) system for optically hunting down enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones, that our radars...

jalopnik.com

araz · Jun 3, 2021

Jf-17 block 3 said:
Why not?

What’s that?

Firstly cost vs benefits. The Taiwanese order was around 8 billion for 55 aircrafts. The airframe life is limited as these airframes are now nearly 40 years old.
HPS are hardpoints for hanging tanks and missiles/bombs.
A

GriffinsRule · Jun 3, 2021

Signalian said:
AM I not understanding it correctly ?

"
Once the electromagnetically silent F-16s are within range, they can create their own engagement quality target tracks without turning on their own radars, even guiding AIM-120 AMRAAMs onto their targets via their IRST's targeting information. By the time the missile's own radar activates, it is too late for the enemy, in seconds they would be destroyed by F-16s they never new were there, all the while thinking the F-15s were still well outside of their own AIM-120 AMRAAM's engagement range. "

Infrared Search And Track Systems And The Future Of The US Fighter Force

Lockheed has a new modular sensor system for combat aircraft dubbed the "Legion Pod" that aims at plugging a major hole in US air warfare capability. It provides a bolt-on Infrared Search and Track (IRST) system for optically hunting down enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones, that our radars...

jalopnik.com

FLIR vs IRST

Talon · Jun 3, 2021

Signalian said:
SNIPER has FLIR.
AMRAAM has own seeker which can get activated at the final stage while it receives all info through data link, so may not need aircraft's radar.

FLIR and IRST are different things, SNIPER's FLIR at max has a range of about 30nm if I am not wrong.

AMRAAM can be uncaged and used like a sidewinder but only at close ranges and that too is not very effective.

The missile only doesn't need guidance after it activates its own radar and the term for that is Pitbull.

Signalian said:
AM I not understanding it correctly ?

"
Once the electromagnetically silent F-16s are within range, they can create their own engagement quality target tracks without turning on their own radars, even guiding AIM-120 AMRAAMs onto their targets via their IRST's targeting information. By the time the missile's own radar activates, it is too late for the enemy, in seconds they would be destroyed by F-16s they never new were there, all the while thinking the F-15s were still well outside of their own AIM-120 AMRAAM's engagement range. "

Infrared Search And Track Systems And The Future Of The US Fighter Force

Lockheed has a new modular sensor system for combat aircraft dubbed the "Legion Pod" that aims at plugging a major hole in US air warfare capability. It provides a bolt-on Infrared Search and Track (IRST) system for optically hunting down enemy aircraft, especially stealthy ones, that our radars...

jalopnik.com

It means that F-15s will use IRST and guide the F16s to the area where bandit is flying,the F16s will then slave their radars to that area and fire their missiles hoping that the missile will be able to get a lock.The missile can be fired in two different modes TWS and RWS..in this scenario TWS might be used, the pilot will keep directing the missile towards the bandit area and only at the final moments missile will go Pitbull and might hit the target flying in that area.