Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Windjammer]

PAF has around 75 F16 of different blocks, assuming all are bvr capable including the adf version.

we bought 500 aim 120, so that means each ac has 6.66 missiles.
so in a shooting war after a week their wont be any bvr missiles available for our f 16 fleet. all that assuming we still have 500 aim 120

In a shooting war, the F-16s are not going to fight all the battles neither we will be relying on just AMRAAMs.
And say we fire off all of around 500 rounds, they should decimate between 450 to 500 enemy aircraft.....breaking the enemy's back.....highly unlikely the enemy would want to continue fight after this.....

 

[Reichmarshal]

with a disparity of more than 2:1, they will be firing all their aim 120 within a week and I highly doubt they will all be hitting their targets ie for various reasons, long debate that.
wasay please check PAF 6+1 strategy/plans according to PAF own expected attrition.

 

[Windjammer]

Worth also remembering that while an F-16 can carry half a dozen missiles including four BVRs....while say the SU-30 can be equipped with up to a dozen rounds mostly BVRs......but it took just one AMRAAM to kill the myth.

 

[VkdIndian]

And say we fire off all of around 500 rounds, they should decimate between 450 to 500 enemy aircraft

95% - 100% success rate in achieving kills that too in BVR environment?
Doesn’t sound feasible.

 

[Tipu7]

Most of the F16-AMRAAM pics we see are from times when India and Pakistan were engaged in military crisis which continued for months and saw active shadow boxing by IAF and PAF.

And no, F16s are not going any where. Not even the ADF ones.

For PAF, Aim120-C5 is far more trust worthy missile than SD-10/A.

 

[Reichmarshal]

only a fool would underestimate ones, enemy.
and in our case, one which is bigger, better armed, and backed by all your former circassian friends.

 

[Raja Porus]

with a disparity of more than 2:1, they will be firing all their aim 120 within a week and I highly doubt they will all be hitting their targets ie for various reasons, long debate that.
wasay please check PAF 6+1 strategy/plans according to PAF own expected attrition.

I asked the same question,

We have almost 500 AMRAAMS right? So if we have almost 70 f16s( keeping it simple for easier calculations) so it means for every f16 we have only 7 AMRAAMS and for every squadron we have almost 84 AMRAAMS ( if there are 12 f16s in a sqn) . Won't they get depleted quickly during war ( talking strictly of BVR engagements with regards to f16s and ignoring jft)? If this has been discussed earlier then please guide me to that thread
Pardon my ignorance please if I have made any mistake.

95% - 100% success rate in achieving kills that too in BVR environment?
Doesn’t sound feasible.

Even with only 50% success rate we will be able to knock out 250 frontline fighters.

 

[gangsta_rap]

and backed by all your former circassian friends.

key point

 

[Windjammer]

95% - 100% success rate in achieving kills that too in BVR environment?
Doesn’t sound feasible.

From past records, it sits at around 80%.... with passage of time, there are better gadgets at play.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Most of the F16-AMRAAM pics we see are from times when India and Pakistan were engaged in military crisis which continued for months and saw active shadow boxing by IAF and PAF.

And no, F16s are not going any where. Not even the ADF ones.

For PAF, Aim120-C5 is far more trust worthy missile than SD-10/A.

There is always have chances to have c7 as well in future untill Americans do not exit Afghanistan or even slight chamces of D as well

 

[Reichmarshal]

Even with only 50% success rate we will be able to knock out 250 frontline fighters.

In a shooting war between two equally matched foes, the success rate would be around 25-30% at best, as there is yet to be a weapon that would be a be all end all of the air warfare and bvr like all such overhyped weapons before it proved less than wt was anticipated from them.
A good example was the f-4 phantom which when conceived was built without a gun, as back then with the advent of air-to-air missiles guns were thought "obsolete".
But with subsequent engagements over Vietnam proved the folly of this decision and later on an external gun was added to it.
This continues to date and even 5th gen ac like the raptor and the f35 come armed with an internal gun.
Airforces worldwide develop tactics to beat bvr missiles, which allow the pilots to get in close, and merge. the distances involved between Pakistan n India are not that great and ac will merge very quickly, even coming into gun range.
The defense industry works because it first develops a weapon and then develops a counter to it.

had bvr been the silver bullet of air warfare, they could just easily mount 50 or a 100 on say a c130. and shoot the crap out of one's enemy at long ranges. but it does not work that way.

 

[Reichmarshal]

key point

those friends can do a lot of damage to make sure their equipment in our armed forces does not produce the desired result eg all our caucasian friends have to do is mess with our GPS coordinates and then we will see how well the mid-course updates on our 120c5 work, giving PAF that magic figure of 90 % kill probability

 

[Reichmarshal]

From past records, it sits at around 80%.... with passage of time, there are better gadgets at play.

View attachment 739521

in his autobiography, Norman Schwarzkopf says that the Russians and then the french only taught the Iraqi pilots to take off and land, and by name, he mentions that the Iraqis had employed Pakistani instructors to teach the Iraqi tactics but the Russians would not let them near the Iraqis.
so in the face of such disparities, these numbers don't really count or matter.

 

[Euro fighter]

In a shooting war, the F-16s are not going to fight all the battles neither we will be relying on just AMRAAMs.
And say we fire off all of around 500 rounds, they should decimate between 450 to 500 enemy aircraft.....breaking the enemy's back.....highly unlikely the enemy would want to continue fight after this.....

Err ............Your assuming a kill ratio of 100% .............Which is hillarious
You tried 4 or 5 Amraams in Feb 2019 ..............They all missed the su30mki

The average kill ratio in BVR combat is any where between 10% and 20% max.
This is why the west are concentrating on improving missles eccm and stealth and speed more than range . They understand the key is NEZ ie no escape Zone
Bolting on range is useless on its ownn.

Another arrogant almost foolish conclusion you made was that each and very F16 will wn every BVR engagment. The reality is the enemy has over 450 fighters everybit as good as the F16 or better
36 rafale with Reb2 Aesa radar Meteore & mica bvrs
45 mirage2000-5 with mica Bvrs
63 Mig29 upg with zhuk Aesa radar new R771 and R27E BVRS
270 Su30mki with Pesa Radar R771/RE27/Astra mk1 bvrs
25 Tejas mk1 with Derby BVR and soon Astra mk1 BVR
40 mig29k zhuk bvr R771/re27 bvrs

Those F16 numbering 75 planes may last 7-10 days by which time 70% will have crashed or become unusable due or fatigue maintenance or no BVRS ........... unless USA resupplys

 

[gangsta_rap]

You tried 4 or 5 Amraams in Feb 2019 ..............They all missed the su30mki

Why haven't you fixed your flags yet, Indian?