Pakistan election: the 4m votes no one wants

[Jaanbaz]

MQM has beaten every conspiracy against it , Ahmedies needs some one who can send their voices to the parliament

I agree with you on that.

 

[RazorMC]

I've actually studied the constitution of Pakistan and wrote many papers on how it persecutes minorities. Look into Ordinance XX of 1984, it basically outlines that Ahmadis are non humans and they should not even deserve the most basic of human rights. Bhutto and Zia injected Pakistan with extremism and radicalism. These type of anti Ahmadi laws resemble Nazi Germany's laws against Jews.

Quote the constitution word for word and prove your claim.

Afaik, the constitution only defines Ahmadis as non-Muslims. I don't see any non-human reference. But as I said, prove me wrong.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Quote the constitution word for word and prove your claim.

Afaik, the constitution only defines Ahmadis as non-Muslims. I don't see any non-human reference. But as I said, prove me wrong.

Ordinance XX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ordinance XX followed in 1984, with the following changes to the PPC:

298-B. Misuse of epithets, descriptions and titles, etc., reserved for certain holy personages or places: (1) Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name who by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation- (a) refers to or addresses, any person, other than a Caliph or companion of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ameer-ul-Mumineen", "Khalifatul- Mumineen", Khalifa-tul-Muslimeen", "Sahaabi" or "Razi Allah Anho"; (b) refers to, or addresses, any person, other than a wife of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ummul-Mumineen"; (c) refers to, or addresses, any person, other than a member of the family "Ahle-bait" of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ahle-bait"; or (d) refers to, or names, or calls, his place of worship a "Masjid"; shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, and shall also be liable to fine. (2) Any person of the Qaudiani group or Lahori group (who call themselves "Ahmadis" or by any other name) who by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation refers to the mode or form of call to prayers followed by his faith as "Azan", or recites Azan as used by the Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, and shall also be liable to fine.

298-C. Person of Quadiani group, etc., calling himself a Muslim or preaching or propagating his faith: Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name), who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.

 

[RazorMC]

Integration works both ways. If majority of Pakistanis are not ready accept us as equals what do you expect Ahmadis to do?

The constitution sees all Pakistanis as equals. The only barrier is the claim to being Muslims, which is unacceptable to Muslims. I won't debate why or why not, but this is not going to change.

So ask again: change or continued sidelining ??

 

[RazorMC]

Ordinance XX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ordinance XX followed in 1984, with the following changes to the PPC:

.....

Note: Post Edited to conserve space


It does impose restrictions on certain acts, but there is nothing that states Ahmadis as sub-human as someone claimed earlier.

Talking about this would again bring us to the whole acceptance issue.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Note: Post Edited to conserve space


It does impose restrictions on certain acts, but there is nothing that states Ahmadis as sub-human as someone claimed earlier.

Talking about this would again bring us to the whole acceptance issue.

exactly why I posted the text.

 

[420canada]

Ahmadis aren't the only ones. Christians are referred to as chooras in Pakistan. Hindus are even worse off in Pakistan due to rivalry with India. In Sindh there have been abductions of Hindu girls who were forced to convert to Islam.



Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born in Qadian not ahmedbad. You're ancestors were Indians too, there was no Pakistan before 1947.

you can say my ancestors where from India but you cant say that i am Indian. how Tareak Fatah explains it is a completely different ball game. and thank you or correcting me, and please refrain from calling him Gulam because he just capitalize on his self belief of him

 

[420canada]

I don't think you have and if you have, not properly.

The only reference I can find on Ahmadi's is 298-c which state


"Person of Quadiani group, etc., calling himself a Muslim or preaching or propagating his faith: Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name), who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine."


Draconian and unfair to Ahmadis? Yes, very much so. Calling Ahmadis non-humans and being a nazi style law? Hardly, you're over-exaggerating things.

Mods, please keep an eye on this thread, I feel like it's going to turn into members just trolling each other.

i am sorry to tell you my friend Pakistan is a so called Islamic State tho the people are not religious. but i my point of view i think they do not want Ahmedis because lets face it the guy who made this new (Grope of Muslim) was a liar like i said he capitalized and made his money that it. they should have common sense and practice the real Islam not this.

 

[Farah Sohail]

How dare you people denounce someone's belief? What if someone were to speak ill of mohammed? You wouldn't like that so why speak ill of their prophet?

We would have no problem if they just accept themselves as 'non Muslims" Every sect of Islam and every scholar has given Fatwa tht they are non Muslims because its a must tht for you to be a Muslim, u have to accept Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is the final prophet just like you have to believe in only one God to be a Muslim.. A person who doesnt believe in one God and believes in more than one God can NOT be a Muslim..no matter how much u force others to believe in it..Similarly you have to believe Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H)to be the final prophet..Its an essential condition of being Muslim...Its not tht we say it..but it is what the religion says.. So it would be better for them to accept tht yes they are non Muslims then everything will be fine...

 

[Farah Sohail]

Slightly off topic but has anyone here read the novel "Peer e Kamil" by Umera Ahmed? Its an amazing novel about Qadyanis...

 

[Jaanbaz]

The constitution sees all Pakistanis as equals. The only barrier is the claim to being Muslims, which is unacceptable to Muslims. I won't debate why or why not, but this is not going to change.

So ask again: change or continued sidelining ??

We will never declare ourselves as Non-Muslims. So just live with it. Ahmadis are being killed while reciting the same kalimah that 1.5billion Muslims recite.

We would have no problem if they just accept themselves as 'non Muslims" Every sect of Islam and every scholar has given Fatwa tht they are non Muslims because its a must tht for you to be a Muslim, u have to accept Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is the final prophet just like you have to believe in only one God to be a Muslim.. A person who doesnt believe in one God and believes in more than one God can NOT be a Muslim..no matter how much u force others to believe in it..Similarly you have to believe Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H)to be the final prophet..Its an essential condition of being Muslim...Its not tht we say it..but it is what the religion says.. So it would be better for them to accept tht yes they are non Muslims then everything will be fine...

This is not a religious thread.

you can say my ancestors where from India but you cant say that i am Indian. how Tareak Fatah explains it is a completely different ball game. and thank you or correcting me, and please refrain from calling him Gulam because he just capitalize on his self belief of him

Wait i get it. In your version of Islam it is a duty to call names to some one who is loved by millions of Ahmadis.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Quote the constitution word for word and prove your claim.

Afaik, the constitution only defines Ahmadis as non-Muslims. I don't see any non-human reference. But as I said, prove me wrong.

Putting Ahmadi Muslims in jail because we recite Quran and recite the kalimah? Which civilized country has such silly laws? State should not be allowed to interfere with people's faith.

 

[That Guy]

i am sorry to tell you my friend Pakistan is a so called Islamic State tho the people are not religious. but i my point of view i think they do not want Ahmedis because lets face it the guy who made this new (Grope of Muslim) was a liar like i said he capitalized and made his money that it. they should have common sense and practice the real Islam not this.

No offense, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say to me, can you explain what it has to do with my comment?

 

[420canada]

No offense, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say to me, can you explain what it has to do with my comment?

just telling you that there aint no Nazi type laws its common sense in Pakistan if you believe in another prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) you are not Muslim and are destroying the religion which is a serious matter.

 

[420canada]

Putting Ahmadi Muslims in jail because we recite Quran and recite the kalimah? Which civilized country has such silly laws? State should not be allowed to interfere with people's faith.

nope Ahmedis believe a prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) not Muslims plain and simple. and if your living in a country that dose not give you basic right get out of there