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Pakistan defiant on Iran gas pipeline

Yes, I was wrong about that; hence I am asking others to establish the odds this time. :D

(BTW, the NATO routes were kicked to the PCNS to make the politicians look bad intentionally by the Army, very likely, causing the delay. I did not think they would be so selfish, but there you are!)

we can speculate till our hearts content......We have a member on this forum who works for Sui Northern Gas company and even he confirmed that for now, no alternatives exist. And no, "for now" is not a key word. If Pakistan reneges on the deal it will have to pay penalties; of course if they go ahead, they'll have to conduct trade in non-dollar currencies and of course banks could be censured. There is still some room for maneuvering and evading existing and future UN resolutions/sanctions, just takes some nitty and gritty thinking and some courage.


the last part of your post was a bit strange in the sense that if it was indeed PA "Calling the shots" you'd accuse them of interfeing in a matter reserved for and under the jurisdiction of Paliament. So either you're against Paliament exercising decision over this matter or you simply hold them in contempt!

or both



What odds would you give me for a bet on those two choices? Be honest now.

Pakistan will go ahead with the pipeline, regardless of vitriolic statements from officials of certain overseas countries -- some of which themselves have gone against UN resolutions


but again, onus is on the GoP. . . to Zardari's credit (which is rare), he has been instrumental in improving commercial and other related ties with Iran.


if things get to the point where we have to be "rogue" and dismiss UN resolutions (even risking our non-permanent seat @ UNSC) I say f*Ck it. A slight shift from my previous stance on it. UN had a bunch of sissies complaining about our military offensives in Swat; same organization that accuses Sri Lanka of war crimes and neglects real bilateral issues which impact security in South Asia. UN sissy-*** tree huggers *** motherfucker hypocrites can wipe our assholes.

Ride the waves, be strong, stay united, be disciplined, stand FIRM. Iran is a Muslim country, and our neigbour. This is a commercial transaction between Iran and Pakistan.

Outsiders have no locus standi over this proposed BILATERAL trade.
 
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Iran is fully committed they have completed their side of pipeline and they have offered to finance it

ICBC of China was to provide the financing facility for Pakistan's half of the construction however due to US pressure they pulled out.....they have financial interests in the west; nothing personal - so we shouldnt even blink an eye.

even Pakistani private banks are too scared - cant blame them either. Their profitabilty in an ever-competitive environment doesnt rest solely on one pipeline project.


Gazprom of Russia has proposed engineering, design and finance facility for construction of about 800 km of pipeline. Pakistani officials were in Russia earlier this month to see what the options are; apparently the meeting went well and there are prospects for Russian investment in this project.


lets see what happens.....under normal circumstances we could just use Dubai-based banks, but even they are now cracking down due to US pressure.
 
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Iran's dangerous trade game

Over the past two decades, imposition of sanctions on Iran has evolved into a dynamic game between Tehran and the international community, with every new round provoking a series of Iranian counter-measures. One of Tehran's weapons in this tussle has been to use its trade policy as a way of discouraging some countries from co-operating with sanctions or aligning themselves too closely with the anti-Iran camp.

A highly visible example has been Iran's trade relations with the six Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states – Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates. Iran has deliberately expanded its trade and investment ties so as to increase the economic costs for them of joining western-sponsored sanctions initiatives. Since 2000, for instance, GCC exports to Iran have increased dramatically, reaching $13.4bn in 2008-09, and thus the GCC states, particularly the UAE, have enjoyed a sizeable trade surplus with respect to Iran.

Simultaneously, Tehran has used trade to discourage the GCC states from forming a united anti-Iranian front headed by Saudi Arabia. This is why it has called for the joint development of its shared gas fields with Kuwait and Qatar but not the Saudis, preferred to trade in UAE dirhams but not other GCC currencies, insisted on regional security arrangements, championed the cause of Shia Muslims in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, maintained friendly relations with Oman where the vast majority of the population resent the Wahhabi/Saudi version of Islam, and given the Qatar Airways the right to operate its domestic flights.

Yet recent reports that Iran has blocked imports from the UAE "as a punitive measure" in response to its support for the US sanctions indicate that Iran's economic co-option strategy has failed. They also point to the catastrophic failure of Tehran's efforts to keep GCC states divided since the UAE is now fully aligned with Saudi policy towards Iran.

In the past, the UAE was often lukewarm towards international sanctions, as well as any military strike against Iran's nuclear installations, and this was mainly due to economic benefits that accrue to the emirate of Dubai from its extensive trade and investment relations with Iran. Disagreements between the ruling families of Dubai and Abu Dhabi with regard to Iran were another factor behind the UAE's refusal to co-operate with unilateral US sanctions. Under immense pressure from the US and concerned about Iran's offensive capabilities, its threat to close the Strait of Hormuz, perceived Iranian meddling in the GCC affairs and the apparent progress of Iran's nuclear programme, the UAE has, however, shown a greater willingness to follow the Saudi lead and support US sanctions since 2010.

Emirates 24/7 reports that "most banks in the UAE have stopped money transfers to Iran since January 2010", while "transactions by Iranian citizens are closely monitored and usually blocked". In addition, the UAE played an important role in persuading China to apply effective sanctions against Iran. As a member of the Rome Club it is also taking an active part in discussions on how to maintain stability in the global energy markets in the event of a formal embargo on Iran's oil exports and its central bank.

This recent shift in the UAE's attitude is also a result of the diminishing economic and financial power of Dubai within the UAE federal framework. Dubai's economic collapse in 2009 reduced its political power and increased that of the Abu Dhabi ruling family, which is less friendly towards Iran.

So, what is Iran's objective in blocking trade with the UAE? Since its economic incentives have failed to keep the GCC states divided and neutral, it may now be seeking the same objective by different means: threats and intimidation.

This is evident in the Iranian officials' use of inflammatory terms with regard to the shared gas fields. On 22 December, for instance, Emad Hosseini, spokesman for the Iranian parliament's energy committee, accused Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait of stealing oil and gas from fields that cross into Iranian territory.

Blocking imports from the UAE should also be seen within this context. In spite of massive improvements since 2009, Dubai still faces debt maturities of more than $10bn next year and may need to borrow more from Abu Dhabi. Aware of this, Tehran could be hoping that its move will cause internal tensions between Abu Dhabi and Dubai by depriving Dubai of an important source of income, thereby forcing the federal government to forgo some of its newly employed anti-Iranian measures.

Whether Iran's latest action will bear fruit or not is hard to tell. What is clear, though, is that sanctions are hurting the Iranian regime and that as a result its behaviour might become less predictable in the near future.

© 2012 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.
 
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Iran's dangerous trade game


© 2012 Guardian News and Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.


Yea rite good neutral western source what do you expect them to say. Iran is cool??
 
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they are SELLING the gas to us at the highest rate possible thats why!



prices are always set on fuel. its 78% for iran, 70% from pipeline of Turkmenistan). now if USA can ensure it around 30-40 as it appears, then it will be absolute foolish decision to continue this project. We should then focus on TAPI,coal and hydral for long term. and LNG for short time...but i dont think so this would happen as the project has been politicised by both govt an opposition, in other words the IP proj is now a political one not a economic one.

We can do both if India and or China join

Yes, I was wrong about that; hence I am asking others to establish the odds this time. :D

I think 100% it will go thru imo
 
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At $11-12 per mmBTU, Iranian gas is a lot more expensive than $2-3 per mmBTU for shale gas of which Pakistan has over 50 trillion cubic feet of reserves in Sindh.

Besides, the Iran gas pricing formula is linked to oil price...it could go up to $20 per mmBTU if oil price goes above $150 a barrel as it did back in 2008.

The best option for Pakistan is to go with developing its own domestic shale gas at a fraction of the price Iran demands. Americans are the pioneers and current leaders in shale gas development.

Pakistan's best interest is not in defying US and Saudis to buy very expensive Iranian gas and end up with crippling sanctions worse than the current energy crisis. The Chinese have already pulled out of funding/building IP pipeline because of fear of US sanctions.

Pakistan's best interests are served by developing its own cheap domestic shale gas with Saudi investment and US tech know-how.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Energy Security Via Shale Gas Revolution
 
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ICBC of China was to provide the financing facility for Pakistan's half of the construction however due to US pressure they pulled out.....they have financial interests in the west; nothing personal - so we shouldnt even blink an eye.

even Pakistani private banks are too scared - cant blame them either. Their profitabilty in an ever-competitive environment doesnt rest solely on one pipeline project.


Gazprom of Russia has proposed engineering, design and finance facility for construction of about 800 km of pipeline. Pakistani officials were in Russia earlier this month to see what the options are; apparently the meeting went well and there are prospects for Russian investment in this project.


lets see what happens.....under normal circumstances we could just use Dubai-based banks, but even they are now cracking down due to US pressure.

There are ways around the sanctions I just think that it is not a coincidence that Russia is coming. In geo strategic terms China is already involved in infra structure in Pakistan. It suits Pakistan Iran China to have Russia get involved. In any event the Iranians have offered the money
 
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At $11-12 per mmBTU, Iranian gas is a lot more expensive than $2-3 per mmBTU for shale gas of which Pakistan has over 50 trillion cubic feet of reserves in Sindh.

Besides, the Iran gas pricing formula is linked to oil price...it could go up to $20 per mmBTU if oil price goes above $150 a barrel as it did back in 2008.

The best option for Pakistan is to go with developing its own domestic shale gas at a fraction of the price Iran demands. Americans are the pioneers and current leaders in shale gas development.

Pakistan's best interest is not in defying US and Saudis to buy very expensive Iranian gas and end up with crippling sanctions worse than the current energy crisis. The Chinese have already pulled out of funding/building IP pipeline because of fear of US sanctions.

Pakistan's best interests are served by developing its own cheap domestic shale gas with Saudi investment and US tech know-how.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Energy Security Via Shale Gas Revolution
[/QUOTE

You are very silly and deluded you have posted this same post on a number of threads and I have already given you reasons why it is not possible.

First the offer comes with strings that they want us not to do IP pipeline. it is not possible for Pakistan because American visions for Pakistan are PA defanged and denuked India a proxy, containment of China and Russia etc. You have to understand even Pakistan has red lines

Accepting India as a proxy and containing China is something Pakistan will never play a part in

If the offer is free of strings fine lets go for it but simply it is not
 
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At $11-12 per mmBTU, Iranian gas is a lot more expensive than $2-3 per mmBTU for shale gas of which Pakistan has over 50 trillion cubic feet of reserves in Sindh.

Besides, the Iran gas pricing formula is linked to oil price...it could go up to $20 per mmBTU if oil price goes above $150 a barrel as it did back in 2008.

The best option for Pakistan is to go with developing its own domestic shale gas at a fraction of the price Iran demands. Americans are the pioneers and current leaders in shale gas development.

Pakistan's best interest is not in defying US and Saudis to buy very expensive Iranian gas and end up with crippling sanctions worse than the current energy crisis. The Chinese have already pulled out of funding/building IP pipeline because of fear of US sanctions.

Pakistan's best interests are served by developing its own cheap domestic shale gas with Saudi investment and US tech know-how.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Energy Security Via Shale Gas Revolution
[/QUOTE

You are very silly and deluded you have posted this same post on a number of threads and I have already given you reasons why it is not possible.

First the offer comes with strings that they want us not to do IP pipeline. it is not possible for Pakistan because American visions for Pakistan are PA defanged and denuked India a proxy, containment of China and Russia etc. You have to understand even Pakistan has red lines

Accepting India as a proxy and containing China is something Pakistan will never play a part in

If the offer is free of strings fine lets go for it but simply it is not

I think it'd be a huge mistake for Pakistan to defy Saudis and Americans to buy Iranian gas at exorbitant prices which are likely to go even higher with increases in oil prices. (Iran gas price is linked with crude oil price).

A better option for Pakistan is to make a deal with Saudis to invest in cheap domestic shale gas development in Pakistan with technical know-how from Americans who are pioneers and leaders in shale.

Domestic shale gas will be much more reliable with more stable and low pricing and avoid triggering crippling US sanctions which even the Chinese are afraid of.
 
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.............
I think 100% it will go thru imo

Okay, I will believe you when the financing contract is signed, and the first shovels hit the ground on the Pakistani side. Please tell me when those things happen.
 
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Yes, I was wrong about that; hence I am asking others to establish the odds this time. :D

(BTW, the NATO routes were kicked to the PCNS to make the politicians look bad intentionally by the Army, very likely, causing the delay. I did not think they would be so selfish, but there you are!)

Hold your train right there sir!

Where does the Army come in this whole PCNS review thing?
 
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Okay, I will believe you when the financing contract is signed, and the first shovels hit the ground on the Pakistani side. Please tell me when those things happen.

You do realise:

1.The IP pipeline has reportedly reached Iran's border,

2 Pakistan has completed the survey for construction of pipeline on its side.

3. Iran has agreed to provide US$250 million to help Pakistan build its end of a gas pipeline

4. Under a sovereign-guarantee agreement related to the Iran pipeline project, Pakistan is bound to start gas flows in 2014 or face a penalty the equivalent of $8 million per day.

5. Gazprom agreed to fund it provided it did not go to open bid. Which Pakistanis are reluctant but if push comes to shove they will go for

6. Last year, Pakistan awarded a $55 million consultancy services contract for IP pipeline to German firm ILF Engineering Services, which is working in collaboration with the National Engineering Services of Pakistan.
 
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You do realise:

1.The IP pipeline has reportedly reached Iran's border,

2 Pakistan has completed the survey for construction of pipeline on its side.

3. Iran has agreed to provide US$250 million to help Pakistan build its end of a gas pipeline

4. Under a sovereign-guarantee agreement related to the Iran pipeline project, Pakistan is bound to start gas flows in 2014 or face a penalty the equivalent of $8 million per day.

5. Gazprom agreed to fund it provided it did not go to open bid. Which Pakistanis are reluctant but if push comes to shove they will go for

6. Last year, Pakistan awarded a $55 million consultancy services contract for IP pipeline to German firm ILF Engineering Services, which is working in collaboration with the National Engineering Services of Pakistan.

Yes, but all that has no concrete backing, you do realize that?

When the financing contracts are signed sealed and delivered and the shovels are hitting the ground in Baluchistan, I will tip my hat off to you for being correct.

Hold your train right there sir!

Where does the Army come in this whole PCNS review thing?

Why take this thread off topic? We can discuss that point elsewhere if you wish to do so.
 
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I think it'd be a huge mistake for Pakistan to defy Saudis and Americans to buy Iranian gas at exorbitant prices which are likely to go even higher with increases in oil prices. (Iran gas price is linked with crude oil price).

A better option for Pakistan is to make a deal with Saudis to invest in cheap domestic shale gas development in Pakistan with technical know-how from Americans who are pioneers and leaders in shale.

Domestic shale gas will be much more reliable with more stable and low pricing and avoid triggering crippling US sanctions which even the Chinese are afraid of.


Man what do you mean defy we are a sovrn nation that will do what is in our interest. Stop bending will you stand up. If Saudis were genuine they and Americans would not attach strings fine. Have you forgotten the cost of working with Americans that army captain that was murdered and left a 2 year old daughter made an orphan by Americans along with 24 other soldiers our martyred. You have no self respect. You make me ashamed to be from the same nation as you. I do not believe you are Pakistani

Yes, but all that has no concrete backing, you do realize that?

When the financing contracts are signed sealed and delivered and the shovels are hitting the ground in Baluchistan, I will tip my hat off to you for being correct.

Why take this thread off topic? We can discuss that point elsewhere if you wish to do so.

Ok Cheng lets wait and see lol
 
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