Pakistan conducts a successful test flight of indigenously developed Fatah-1, Guided Multi Launch Rocket System

[waz]

Yikes, sorry bro but did you see the display of the missiles displayed in Moscow? and there were videos of so many interceptions. Do you know how many missiles were launched? The target was an airbase and the airbase was hit but not put out of commission the Syrians were still flying from that airbase.

Most of them were assessed by neutral folks, and were deemed to be spent missile parts after they hit their targets bro. Yes there were videos of interceptions but they didn't account not even a 1/4 of what was fire at them.
105 missiles were fired, as per US and allied nation statements.
The airbase had to be repaired at a large cost and time for them to fly out of it again.
Here;

A Syrian living a few kilometres from the airbase told the BBC that he was awoken at about 03:45 by the force of the explosions. When he looked outside, he saw larges areas on fire, he said.
A cousin doing military service said he had gone to check on his friends at the facility and seen "total devastation", he added.
The Syrian military said the strike had left six personnel and a number of others injured, and caused "huge material damage".

Syria war: Why was Shayrat airbase bombed?

Why did the US target this airbase in its first intentional attack on Syria in six years of war?

www.bbc.co.uk

Anyway we are going off-topic. Let's leave it, my initial post was aimed at someone stating the PAF wouldn't be able to operate inside 50km of its own border, as the S-400 will take them out.

 

[KaiserX]

What Your saying is :

100 MLRS with 100,000 rockets, if we were to simplify this further thats like having a single MLRS with a 1000 rockets (1:1000), the whole point of having such a system is to barrage the enemy with [saturation] attacks, considering the quantifiable delay in rearming beats its purpose, not to forget the logistics nightmare, It would make more sense if we were to produce far more MLRS at the cost of a fewer rockets.

The MBRL can be reloaded

 

[Path-Finder]

Most of them were assessed by neutral folks, and were deemed to be spent missile parts after they hit their targets bro. Yes there were videos of interceptions but they didn't account not even a 1/4 of what was fire at them.
105 missiles were fired, as per US and allied nation statements.
The airbase had to be repaired at a large cost and time for them to fly out of it again.
Here;

A Syrian living a few kilometres from the airbase told the BBC that he was awoken at about 03:45 by the force of the explosions. When he looked outside, he saw larges areas on fire, he said.
A cousin doing military service said he had gone to check on his friends at the facility and seen "total devastation", he added.
The Syrian military said the strike had left six personnel and a number of others injured, and caused "huge material damage".

Syria war: Why was Shayrat airbase bombed?

Why did the US target this airbase in its first intentional attack on Syria in six years of war?

www.bbc.co.uk

Anyway we are going off-topic. Let's leave it, my initial post was aimed at someone stating the PAF wouldn't be able to operate inside 50km of its own border, as the S-400 will take them out.

bro who are the neutral folks? bbc? bbc is the mouthpiece of the state and its allies. there is ANNA news who are Russian BUT they are on ground, on the front line. they visited that particular airbase which according to the west was behind some shoddy chemical attack. They arrived on that base after the missile attack showing parts of tomahawk and other ALCM missiles that struck and the base WAS NOT PUT OUT OF COMMISSION. it was hit and damaged BUT NOT put out of commission.

Now after seeing that why in Gods name would I believe those so called independent/neutral folks?

 

[Khanate]

A locally produced rocket versus an overpriced, imported S-400 battery.

The numbers and economics is simply not in favour of the S-400 battery.

I'll gladly wager on the rocket to win 10 out of 10 times.

The MBRL can be reloaded

Indeed they are reloaded.

However, the question is if 100 MLRS would be sufficient were a conventional war to break out between India and Pakistan. We share a 3,300 KM with India and the concentration of our current MLRS inventory can't be more than 1 MLRS per 33KM. Obviously we wont spread our MLRS as thin but given the range of Fatah-1 rockets, the overall concentration seems decent at first until one factors in wartime attritions. This is where the problem lies.

The fact that we can't produce MLRS locally means we may or may not be able to replace these systems. One hopes we will be able to get them quickly from China.

Fatah-1 is a step in the right direction but it would be a shame to end this journey on just the rocket itself.

 

[KaiserX]

A locally produced rocket versus an overpriced, imported S-400 battery.

The numbers and economics is simply not in favour of the S-400 battery.

I'll gladly wager on the rocket to win 10 out of 10 times.





Indeed they are reloaded.

However, the question is if 100 MLRS would be sufficient were a conventional war to break out between India and Pakistan. We share a 3,300 KM with India and the concentration of our current MLRS inventory can't be more than 1 MLRS per 33KM. Obviously we wont spread our MLRS as thin but given the range of Fatah-1 rockets, the overall concentration seems decent at first until one factors in wartime attritions. This is where the problem lies.

The fact that we can't produce MLRS locally means we may or may not be able to replace these systems. One hopes we will be able to get them quickly from China.

Fatah-1 is a step in the right direction but it would be a shame to end this journey on just the rocket itself.

Pakistan has many A-100s and locally produced MRLS. The Fatah-1 is very similar to the SY-300. A-100s will be used at the tactical level while Fatah-1 is more suited for forward operating bases. Pakistan has so far managed to build a strong homegrown tiered missile systems suited for the following:

AZAR brigaes- Will be used at the tactical level to hit Indian positions
NASR brigades- Will be used to hit Indian strike formations
A-100 brigades- Will be used to hit Indian strike formations/forward operating bases
Fatah-1 brigades- Will be used to hit Indian forward operating air bases within 200km of the IB/LOC
Babur brigades- Used to hit Indian command centers/ airbases/ key infrastructure 750km deep inside
Shaheen brigades- Use to hit Indian strategic command centers/air bases key infrastructure 1500km deep inside

Lastly I expect Pakistan to test the last piece of this triad which would be a system similar to the Russian Iskander. An Iskander brigade can launch 16 missiles with CEP of 10 meters to strategic command nodes. Something which makes NATO strategic planners nervous to the core.

I agree that Pakistan needs a large MRLS force once you include the NASR, Babur, and MRLS we need a force of at least 1000. We should even take the Chinese route and create a Strategic Rocket force as a seperate 4th branch of the armed forces to focus on missile mobilization and space power projections. Reason being the future of warfare is fact moving towards the domination of Smart Missiles, Drones, and Jets. Id rather use a homegrown smart cheap missile to take out my enemy in India/Afghanistan rather than risk the lives of SSG or a 50 million dollar fighter jet.

 

[imranyounus]

AZAR brigaes- Will be used at the tactical level to hit Indian positions

What is AZAR brigaes

 

[ZAC1]

We already have different MBRLS of diff ranges...starting frm 20km to 140 km...
We should produce them in good numbers.
Once a full scale war starts...Boom ..half of indian air force vanished

 

[SQ8]

These systems signify a lot more than just precision tactical level systems - the target mix for these can range from counter battery to C4I units of the enemy.
Perhaps the goals isn’t to stop the rooster of the Indian armor but to leave it a headless chicken without battlefield control or awareness. 16 T-90MS are a formidable force but if one takes out the squadrons command tanks and/or jams their comms - they are running nowhere to be either picked off by ATGM’s.
The cost of this system will be another factor to determine its production potential - a battery of these equipped with a cluster payload of just 3 SF skeets could take out nearly a 100 armored vehicles so long as an asset is providing targeting data.

Now it goes back to the days when a certain warehouse outside of morgah was testing a dual diamond winged UAV with what looked to me like a MMW radar in 2006.

 

[SQ8]

Obviously it seems natural enough that this system might be developed against S400, Pinaka or SMerSH etc....but this is not the case. There are enough of important Indian military targets near the border which are worth several S-400....not in terms of cost maybe, but the EFFECTS they may have on the conduct of a conventional battle being fought nearby or even in another zone / theatre.

Gun positions, attacking / defending force assembly areas, logistic nodes / dumps, bridges (VERY IMPORTANT), road / rail nodes.....etc....

As an example, i'll not name, but destruction of a particular bridge may have much more destructive EFFECTS then destroying an S-400 battery....

Perhaps the context to that being of the third ring having a much greater impact than the 5th.

 

[KaiserX]

Perhaps the context to that being of the third ring having a much greater impact than the 5th.
View attachment 705736

The quickest way to decapitate an enemy will always be a surgical final strike on its political/military leadership.

In this instance with India, key relevant figures would include:

- Prime Minister Modi
- Foreign/Defence/Finance ministers
- Joints Chief of staff Members
- Lt Generals
- RAW Chief
-BJP/RSS party leadership

 

[SQ8]

The quickest way to decapitate an enemy will always be a surgical final strike on its political/military leadership.

In this instance with India, key relevant figures would include:

- Prime Minister Modi
- Foreign/Defence/Finance ministers
- Joints Chief of staff Members
- Lt Generals
- RAW Chief
-BJP/RSS party leadership

True, but Pakistan cannot necessarily get those people - for a lack of capabilities to track in sufficient warning and assets to hit such targets but also because that is an escalation tier that will leave our side which generally has less depth and protection to run to vulnerable.

 

[Goenitz]

The quickest way to decapitate an enemy will always be a surgical final strike on its political/military leadership.

In this instance with India, key relevant figures would include:

- Prime Minister Modi
- Foreign/Defence/Finance ministers
- Joints Chief of staff Members
- Lt Generals
- RAW Chief
-BJP/RSS party leadership

@SQ8 @Windjammer
I think RAW HQs and communication jam is important. Letting Modi etc spared is good as the next army leadership will totally bulge/submit to that arrogant man..
Tracking Lt Gen to Lt Col is not easy. I proposed back a dating app with real users though. The trick was to include GPS location all the time, for verifying user's country for transparency. Then hope magic will happen

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

These systems signify a lot more than just precision tactical level systems - the target mix for these can range from counter battery to C4I units of the enemy.
Perhaps the goals isn’t to stop the rooster of the Indian armor but to leave it a headless chicken without battlefield control or awareness. 16 T-90MS are a formidable force but if one takes out the squadrons command tanks and/or jams their comms - they are running nowhere to be either picked off by ATGM’s.
The cost of this system will be another factor to determine its production potential - a battery of these equipped with a cluster payload of just 3 SF skeets could take out nearly a 100 armored vehicles so long as an asset is providing targeting data.

Now it goes back to the days when a certain warehouse outside of morgah was testing a dual diamond winged UAV with what looked to me like a MMW radar in 2006.

To max the Fatah-1's value, the Army would need to take network-enabled warfare really seriously. E.g., the Fatah-1 is a great case for a stand-off range ISTAR aircraft. The PA can use the aircraft to identify, locate and track key targets for the Fatah-1. You complement the Fatah-1 with our GLCMs, it's a very potent land-based strike capability.

I just hope we also add an Iskander-like TBM. Basically, a SRBM (<300 km) design that uses terminal-stage maneuvering warheads (like Nasr 2).

 

[KaiserX]

True, but Pakistan cannot necessarily get those people - for a lack of capabilities to track in sufficient warning and assets to hit such targets but also because that is an escalation tier that will leave our side which generally has less depth and protection to run to vulnerable.

Why is that? Why are we unable to think out of the box? it is because of our own lack of will. I gaurantee you a first decapitating strike on the Indian govt/military would save millions upon millions of lives.

@SQ8 @Windjammer
I think RAW HQs and communication jam is important. Letting Modi etc spared is good as the next army leadership will totally bulge/submit to that arrogant man..
Tracking Lt Gen to Lt Col is not easy. I proposed back a dating app with real users though. The trick was to include GPS location all the time, for verifying user's country for transparency. Then hope magic will happen

I decapitating strike on Modi would significantly hurt the motivation of the enemy and blow the air out of the hindutva balloon that is the real threat to Pakistan and the rest of the region.

We should also remember that poor innocent Indian people however misguided many voted for RSS/BJP simply for biryani/pakora/chaat. Indian politics is a lot like Pakistans where poor fools are made naive for a few pakoras. They should be spared as much as possible. A decapitating strike on Airbases/leadership would save many innocent lives and in the long run benefit Pakistan mostly.

I am surprised why ISI/SSG are not taking the route Israelis did against Nazi leadership after ww2 chasing them down to every corner of earth to spare no justice for the lives lost. Truth is our military only cares of Kashmir when their fat bellys are getting VIP plots, servants, and drivers.

 

[SQ8]

Why is that? Why are we unable to think out of the box? it is because of our own lack of will. I gaurantee you a first decapitating strike on the Indian govt/military would save millions upon millions of lives.


I decapitating strike on Modi would significantly hurt the motivation of the enemy and blow the air out of the hindutva balloon that is the real threat to Pakistan and the rest of the region.

We should also remember that poor innocent Indian people however misguided many voted for RSS/BJP simply for biryani/pakora/chaat. Indian politics is a lot like Pakistans where poor fools are made naive for a few pakoras. They should be spared as much as possible. A decapitating strike on Airbases/leadership would save many innocent lives and in the long run benefit Pakistan mostly.

I am surprised why ISI/SSG are not taking the route Israelis did against Nazi leadership after ww2 chasing them down to every corner of earth to spare no justice for the lives lost. Truth is our military only cares of Kashmir when their fat bellys are getting VIP plots, servants, and drivers.

Because the probability of success with that is not only low, but also because the international blowback to something like that will be immense. Moreover, there is NO guarantee to your assertion that somehow by eliminating this leadership circle with a 100% success rate(impossible) will not invite some crazy on their end to retaliate with nuclear weapons.

Neither side has the ability to differentiate if a ballistic or cruise warhead is carrying a conventional or nuclear payload. However, India’s early warning is boosted with both their Green Pine systems and additional assets - if they see a few dozen ballistic missiles heading their way; like Pakistan they will assume those would be nuclear and will alert their forces to retaliate in kind.