Pakistan CANNOT "conquer Kashmir through war" : Hina Rabbani Khar

[Uzair Shafiq [Босс]]

'We cannot conquer Kashmir through war'

ISLAMABAD: Former foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar on Sunday said Pakistan cannot "conquer Kashmir through war" and progress on the issue can only me made in an environment of mutual trust with India.

We can win it's not that.
But she has a very valid point.
#Peace but india has never and most probably will never initiate a peace dialogue.
Samney hath milao pechay say chako maro .

 

[Fireurimagination]

Make LOC the IB, those who want to go to Pakistan can go, India compensates Pakistan accordingly and then lets live in peace and focus on making $$s together

 

[IceCold]

You may be right..... But then have seen sections of text books which has twisted the history and twisted in a way to spread hatred......... May be this is done on a small section of education system ...... You know it better as you are in teaching profession......

All private schools are either teaching Oxford syllabus or Cambridge. Even the Punjab Text board has no such thing which would be consider as hatred towards Hindus or India. I believe the only part where you can say is the history of 1965 war taught in Pakistan studies but that is only applicable to students who take on the matric route. For others there is only a brief reference to 65. Nothing like the hype created in the media or the popular belief here .

 

[haviZsultan]

If Hina Rabbani Khar believes war cannot free Kashmir then talks certainly cannot. Has India in its talks ever expressed the belief that Kashmir deserves to decide their own destiny. They just occupy lands and the moment someone asks them why the typical response is "go to Pakistan" Such a response is so common that even the most loyal of Indian muslims has suffered such. Indians do not understand the contributions muslims have made in the sub continent nor do they care. They want to force loyalty and love for India at gunpoint and it can never work. It hasn't worked with the Kashmiris nor will it work with Hyderabadis and Lucknowis.

 

[nair]

All private schools are either teaching Oxford syllabus or Cambridge. Even the Punjab Text board has no such thing which would be consider as hatred towards Hindus or India. I believe the only part where you can say is the history of 1965 war taught in Pakistan studies but that is only applicable to students who take on the matric route. For others there is only a brief reference to 65. Nothing like the hype created in the media or the popular belief here .

My knowledge in this field is limited and based on the articles i read (need not be true)......

 

[third eye]

If Hina Rabbani Khar believes war cannot free Kashmir then talks certainly cannot. Has India in its talks ever expressed the belief that Kashmir deserves to decide their own destiny. They just occupy lands and the moment someone asks them why the typical response is "go to Pakistan" Such a response is so common that even the most loyal of Indian muslims has suffered such. Indians do not understand the contributions muslims have made in the sub continent nor do they care. They want to force loyalty and love for India at gunpoint and it can never work. It hasn't worked with the Kashmiris nor will it work with Hyderabadis and Lucknowis.

Wars have failed, talks as per you cannot help.

Whats the answer then other than accepting realities & moving on ?

 

[Maj.Osmani]

She is not even a politician Women qota works well for her during Musharaf's era anyways we have liberated parts of disputed territory by war and lose Siachin during talks.

A big no to that lady but being a Muslim i don't wish for war but if war imposed on us we should make sure this will be the last war between Indian and Pakistan.
.

 

[third eye]

if war imposed on us we should make sure this will be the last war between Indian and Pakistan.

A war if ever there will be one shall be self imposed.

Be rest assured both nations will ensure its the last one.

However, if that too does not help then what ?

 

[Areesh]

Sir,

I never presumed that it is what Kashmiris want. I merely stated is as a solution to the Status Quo.

What do you suggest . Go to another war with India or live for another 70 years in a state of cold war with India?

Sir the thing is it is not a solution. It can be a small step towards solution. But problem is still there. It would remain there. The problem is not in Kashmir. The problem is in Indian occupation of Kashmir. Even if Pakistan today abandons kashmiris and their freedom movement do you think Kashmiris would end their resistance? The thing is no. Kashmiris won't end their resistance. In fact if Pakistan abandons Kashmir cause then Kashmiris living in Pakistan and AJK would get disillusioned with state of Pakistan.

So what is the solution? The solution is end of Indian occupation of Kashmir. That is the one and only solution. Now you would say India won't end its occupation. It is obvious. No occupational force does that. No colonial power would do that. We all know that. The thing is we need to keep supporting the resistance and wait for the moment till we end this problem for good. We got a chance back in 1962 and we wasted it. We didn't utilize it. We might wait for 50 years for it. 100 years for it. But then that is the only solution.

or there is one more solution. Indian state somehow manages to bridge the gap that exists between New Delhi and Srinagar. Today people of Kashmir are completely disillusioned with India. For them India is a supreme evil. If somehow India manages to satisfy Kashmiris to end their resistance against occupation then obviously Pakistan would have to abandon its Kashmir policy too. I don't see that happening though.

Even some Indians are asking their state to stop blaming Pakistan for every sh!t in IOK and asking them to review their policies towards the state. Do read this article

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/pampo...pf-terrorism-narendra-modi/story/1/11409.html

So either it is freedom from Indian occupation or India ending Kashmiris alienation. There is no third solution. No intermingling can replace these two solutions.

 

[Spectre]

This forum is full of educated, intelligent and prudent members. Let us ignore the emotions and understand the following ground reality:

“Pakistan is not strong enough nor likely to be in the foreseeable to liberate Kashmir from India by force and Indians are not likely to “gift” Kashmir to Pakistan.”

Both India & Pakistan have the nuclear weapons and any serious conflict involving nuclear exchange would simply kill about a million citizens of both the countries, but it would still not liberate Kashmir.

Therefore one needs to think outside the box to find solution of the Kashmir problem. Who owns the real estate is not relevant. Most important thing is that the Kashmiris on both sides of the border are able to intermingle & do business together without too much hindrance.

Once you have freedom of movement of the Kashmiri people between the two parts (Like Canada & the US) the border becomes largely irrelevant & the problem is resolved automatically. Pak Army High Command realized it more than 10 years ago. That is why Musharraf started the Confidence Building Measures (CBM) with the Vajpayee regime. However, subsequent political regimes lack the courage and the vision to pursue this approach.

I keep repeating that retrogressive religious -political parties who were against the creation of Pakistan have hijacked Pakistan ideology. Elected representatives are afraid of the bigoted Maulana Masood Azhar & Munawwar Hassans of today who will never be able to win electoral mandate from Pakistan people.

No doubt some Jamaat Islami followers still believe that they can conquer Lal Qila of Delhi armed with 'lathis' because they have the ‘Jazba’ of Islam. Sadly many naïve Pakistanis also believe this non sense.

If being a Muslim & having ‘Jazba’ alone could conquer the world, pagan Mongols would have not have been able to massacre millions of Muslims including the Abbasside Khalifa Al Mustasim in 1258 or the kafir English able to conquer India and the Ottoman Turks.

I hope when and "if" Pakistan army gets rid of the internal terrorists it will be able to wipe out the likes of Let, JuD and sundry groups externally focused on India and Afghan and rid themselves of this extremist problem. I realize it's easier said then done as even India which is relatively stable has not been able to rid themself of internal insurgents but "strong political will to desist from using Proxy groups to Harm others" should be there.

If Pakistan again embarks on the same disastrous course of death by thousand cuts, strategic depth etc after the pain of daily attacks dull then there is no hope for reconciliation.

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Kashmir will never be resolved.
Make LAC the IB. Issue resolved.

 

[nair]

However, if that too does not help then what ?

The bigger question is how many would be there to answer this question ??????

 

[haviZsultan]

Wars have failed, talks as per you cannot help.

Whats the answer then other than accepting realities & moving on ?

There is no option. War no, talks no. Neither will get us Kashmir.

I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps if Pakistan knew that there are muslims in Lucknow willing to rise up in support of Pakistan military the effects might be different. But militias don't win wars. I don't have any solution in mind. Personally knowing the hell war is it should be avoided at all costs.

 

[third eye]

The bigger question is how many would be there to answer this question ??????

On the Indian side there would be enough , have no fear.

There would be a substantial number in Pak too.

There is no option. War no, talks no. Neither will get us Kashmir.

I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps if Pakistan knew that there are muslims in Lucknow willing to rise up in support of Pakistan military the effects might be different. But militias don't win wars. I don't have any solution in mind. Personally knowing the hell war is it should be avoided at all costs.

The answer my friend from Lucknow is to cherish & nurture what you have. For there was a time when this was only hoped for.

Stop coveting what the other has, learn to live within your own means, India has more Muslims than Pakistan. Those who chose to remain in the land of their birth. Stop worrying about them, more Muslims are denied their Haq-e - Khuderatiat outside India than in India.

Sure , India is not the garden of Eden not shall it ever be, yet there is a system in its madness.

Live happily in your own land. Kashmir is going no where nor ever will.

Lets convert the bloody LOC into an IB & move on in life.

Germany - Britan & France could bury the hatchet, so could Japan & US . Why the hell can we not ?

Kashmir has become an industry on both sides of the LC, a source for money & livelihood.

We squabble endlessly while our weapon suppliers laugh their way to the bank.

 

[Spectre]

Sir the thing is it is not a solution. It can be a small step towards solution. But problem is still there. It would remain there. The problem is not in Kashmir. The problem is in Indian occupation of Kashmir. Even if Pakistan today abandons kashmiris and their freedom movement do you think Kashmiris would end their resistance? The thing is no. Kashmiris won't end their resistance. In fact if Pakistan abandons Kashmir cause then Kashmiris living in Pakistan and AJK would get disillusioned with state of Pakistan.

So what is the solution? The solution is end of Indian occupation of Kashmir. That is the one and only solution. Now you would say India won't end its occupation. It is obvious. No occupational force does that. No colonial power would do that. We all know that. The thing is we need to keep supporting the resistance and wait for the moment till we end this problem for good. We got a chance back in 1962 and we wasted it. We didn't utilize it. We might wait for 50 years for it. 100 years for it. But then that is the only solution.

or there is one more solution. Indian state somehow manages to bridge the gap that exists between New Delhi and Srinagar. Today people of Kashmir are completely disillusioned with India. For them India is a supreme evil. If somehow India manages to satisfy Kashmiris to end their resistance against occupation then obviously Pakistan would have to abandon its Kashmir policy too. I don't see that happening though.

Even some Indians are asking their state to stop blaming Pakistan for every sh!t in IOK and asking them to review their policies towards the state. Do read this article

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/pampo...pf-terrorism-narendra-modi/story/1/11409.html

So either it is freedom from Indian occupation or India ending Kashmiris alienation. There is no third solution. No intermingling can replace these two solutions.

One of the few coherent and well argued posts from you. You are correct to an extent - "some" Kashmiris are alienated from India. A smaller portion of them take up arms and the remaining provide passive support to insurgency. Then there are others who take up arms against the insurgents by turning informants or joining Indian army. Then there are others who have no truck with Kashmiri cause but choose to exploit it for monetary gains by playing both sides - the core of this group form the Pakistan Flag waiving, stone pelting crowd.

With this background - there is increasing levels of realizations amongst Indian polity that Indian Govt has failed to bring Kashmiri closer to mainland and if even 50-100 Kashmiris take up arms amongst million strong populace it reflects that changes need to be bought. If your house is weak then it is obvious that others will take advantage so the priority is to bury the ghosts of the past and bring enough jobs and education to the valley so that they those wronged can look towards a brighter future.

The problem on Indian side is that it suits Kashmiri political parties to maintain the status quo and keep Kashmir in a state of control chaos as it is highly profitable to maintain the exclusive status it commands in India. If everything was hunky dory in Kashmir then the barriers seperating Kashmir from mainland will be done away with and the full integration with mainland will make Muftis and Abdullahs loose their irrelevant.

From the side of union govt - focus needs to be on training of local police so that they are competent enough to handle law and order situations and army slowly but steadily withdrawing from Kashmir except for the presence at borders to safeguard against Pakistani origin terrorists and other misadventures like Op Gibralter, Kargill, Siachin

@Joe Shearer @third eye