Pakistan can no longer sustain cost of war, says expert

[notorious_eagle]

Afghan Taliban.. Which means indirectly, the state of Pakistan it self.. Oohhh!! The irony !!!!!

Chalo jee Shabaashay

How gullible are you people seriously? So what you are saying is our Generals are paying the Talibans to kill our own soldiers . Amazing logic, i am not surprised considering how you guys have been brainwashed by your media.

 

[SMC]

Afghan Taliban.. Which means indirectly, the state of Pakistan it self.. Oohhh!! The irony !!!!!

 

[SMC]

Chalo jee Shabaashay

How gullible are you people seriously? So what you are saying is our Generals are paying the Talibans to kill our own soldiers . Amazing logic, i am not surprised considering how you guys have been brainwashed by your media.

These guys are 'bholas' of the highest order when it comes to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Even their more knowledgeable citizens are airhead-ish when it comes to these affairs. Their only source of information is bharti and american media. No wonder.

 

[Tshering22]

Chalo jee Shabaashay

How gullible are you people seriously? So what you are saying is our Generals are paying the Talibans to kill our own soldiers . Amazing logic, i am not surprised considering how you guys have been brainwashed by your media.

But the Afghan taliban according to Pakistanis is different from TTP.

Make up your mind already. They are either one and the same or separate.

 

[third eye]

This was never a war of us Pakistanis. This will never be a war of us Pakistanis. We have been played in the hands of US.

Actually,the world feels as a nation you are at war with yourself

 

[SMC]

But the Afghan taliban according to Pakistanis is different from TTP.

Make up your mind already. They are either one and the same or separate.

I don't see anything in that post that suggests that TTP and Afghan Taliban are the same group.

Actually,the world feels as a nation you are at war with yourself

And? What does that prove exactly? World also thought earth is flat.. you're using a usual argumentum ad populum fallacy.

 

[Tshering22]

I don't see anything in that post that suggests that TTP and Afghan Taliban are the same group.

So now you're sure they are different groups right? Fine.

The reason why I said is because your government officially supports Afghan Taliban while TTP is your state enemy.

And? What does that prove exactly? World also thought earth is flat.. you're using a usual argumentum ad populum fallacy.

There's nothing wrong in what he said. Initially you brazenly used to use militancy as a proxy for achieving your military objectives since NATO left Afghanistan after USSR's war. But when US stopped running your country and asked you to handle it, all hell broke loose and the militants got out of your control.

Now you're at war with something you yourself created.

 

[third eye]

And? What does that prove exactly? World also thought earth is flat.. you're using a usual argumentum ad populum fallacy.

The uneducated world thought so centuries ago, now they know different.

Similarly, the world now finds that front line state in the WOT is not a part of the solution...

 

[INDIC]

I don't see anything in that post that suggests that TTP and Afghan Taliban are the same group.

Can you share what difference do you see between them.

 

[arbit]

DroneMailini.

Pakistan needs to start thinking like a nation state. We are a small economy and do not have the capacity to project power even on a regional level. First and last thing that should matter for Pakistan now is economy. Economy > F.relations. Everyone salutes the rising sun.

Pakistan needs to allow India to take over Afghanistan and become its best friend, regardless of how damaging it might be to us. In a situation where we get attacked from both sides at the same time, we have what matters. We can turn both "friends" into a radio active waste land. Worst we expect from an Indian stooge Afghanistan would be logistical, intelligence, training and financial support to terrorist groups in Pakistan. Therefore we need to bolster our security and get used to with watching the west. Which in return will result in favor being returned to India with a reasonable % of interest.

If, India sees its benefit in doing that, then we would be happy to play the same theory from Kashmir to Asaam, to Manipur and 20 other insurgent groups who see India as an enemy. Hopefully it will give food for thought to Indian policy makers [Speak of proxy war.]

In, the end India will use Afghanistan as a condom against Pakistan for and until it seems necessary, it will provide billions in FDI, pay to train its non Pashtun Army [indoctrinating them to be Anti Pakistan] even when its own population starves, to fulfill its obsession. Leaving Afghanistan where it was 30 years ago and only then they will realize their REAL spot and interests.

Aeronaut

The thing is every argument of yours 'we will do this we can do that' can be credibly rebutted. For instance there is nothing you are threatening to do that you haven't done before; you were relatively stronger then with powerful allies. Now we are stronger you weaker. We have friends you don't. WE PREVAILED. YOU ARE STRUGGLING. Still you believe you can turn the tables with that snake in your background. Simpatico

But you are so passionate about this topic that you sound like another run of the mill poster with the power of a MOD.

Needless to say a post with bitter truths and reasonable arguments will either get deleted or worse the poster will get banned. So I am on the sidelines with popcorn. Hope you don't mind.

 

[SMC]

So now you're sure they are different groups right? Fine.

When did I ever say they're the same group? Are you imagining things here?

The reason why I said is because your government officially supports Afghan Taliban while TTP is your state enemy.

Yeah, blah blah blah - nice conspiracy theories. Keep them for BR and right wing American forums please.

There's nothing wrong in what he said. Initially you brazenly used to use militancy as a proxy for achieving your military objectives since NATO left Afghanistan after USSR's war. But when US stopped running your country and asked you to handle it, all hell broke loose and the militants got out of your control.

Amazing display of ignorance and twisting facts. "When US stopped running your country"? How about when US left the region without doing anything about the insurgent groups they created? Try that -- that's a more reasonable explanation. Even American government has admitted they're just as responsible for the mess that was created after the war ended. But like before, you imagine things which suit your worldview.

Now you're at war with something you yourself created.

Yeah -- Pakistan created TTP. More amazing display of ignorance. It's useless to have these armchair bharati experts (such as yourself) discussing these kinds of issues -- issues you have little idea about, and which you oversimplify exponentially to make it suit your worldview.

The uneducated world thought so centuries ago, now they know different.

Doesn't make a difference. A logical fallacy is a logical fallacy. Try something that doesn't fail the basic test of logic.

Similarly, the world now finds that front line state in the WOT is not a part of the solution...

As an aside, what are you referring to "the world" as btw? US + Bharat?

Can you share what difference do you see between them.

The basic difference being that one almost exclusively targets Pakistan and the other exclusively targets NATO?

 

[Kompromat]

Aeronaut

The thing is every argument of yours 'we will do this we can do that' can be credibly rebutted. For instance there is nothing you are threatening to do that you haven't done before; you were relatively stronger then with powerful allies. Now we are stronger you weaker. We have friends you don't. WE PREVAILED. YOU ARE STRUGGLING. Still you believe you can turn the tables with that snake in your background. Simpatico

But you are so passionate about this topic that you sound like another run of the mill poster with the power of a MOD.

Needless to say a post with bitter truths and reasonable arguments will either get deleted or worse the poster will get banned. So I am on the sidelines with popcorn. Hope you don't mind.

Speak, your mind dude. No one deletes argumentative posts around here. I, appreciate good discussion.

 

[SMC]

The thing is every argument of yours 'we will do this we can do that' can be credibly rebutted. For instance there is nothing you are threatening to do that you haven't done before; you were relatively stronger then with powerful allies. Now we are stronger you weaker. We have friends you don't. WE PREVAILED. YOU ARE STRUGGLING. Still you believe you can turn the tables with that snake in your background. Simpatico

Oh look - someone calling the final result after just 3-5 years of conflict. Seriously? Seriously? You haven't even taken into consideration what happens when US leaves Afghanistan. Try making the final call in 10-20 years. That's when you're much more likely to be true. Right now, you're looking like a clown.

 

[Donatello]

1: Time to exit the war.
2: Seal the border with Afghanistan with only opening to NATO withdrawal.
3: Stop all forms of trade to Karzai's Afghanistan. [Let Ahmadinejad do it.]
4: Install check posts, shoot everyone coming from Afghanistan in the head..who's coming without a biometric entry tag. [I am sure They can fly to New Dehli]
5: Forcefully evict all Afghan Migrants from Camps in FATA. They should contribute to the New Afghanistan being Afghan citizens. [No, more asylum on our passports which screws our F.Relations]
6: Start negotiations with the insurgent groups, ONLY those who concern our national security.
7: Let Karazai and 18 Indian consulates deal with Mullah Omar, and other factions of the Taliban.
8: Hand over FATA back to tribals through a peace deal, backed by an ongoing political framework.
9: Deny India ANY transit to Afghanistan and close air space for ALL flights towards it. [They can detour from China or perhaps Iran]
10: Take targeted military strikes as a last option against those who cant be dealt with through the above process.

Pakistan does NOT need to abandon, strategic depth. It needs to abandon Strategic depth and Afghanistan BOTH.Sooner the "End of brotherhood" comes, the better for Pakistan's internal security that would be. Afghanistan, should only be engaged with a strategy of calculative engagement, IF and WHEN needed, IF & When it serves our interests.

2 and 4 are options that are plausible, but in current scenario very very hard to achieve. The Afghan-Pak border is very porous. If you've been to Khyber Pass you'd know how difficult it is to maintain manned posts there, due to terrain. It's more than 2000 km long!!!

 

[arbit]

Speak, your mind dude. No one deletes argumentative posts around here. I, appreciate good discussion.

Fair enough. Lets break your to do list into two parts. First relates to your own country. Like sealing borders and shooting anybody that comes through along with revoking passports. Good idea. I in fact concur with your plan of action. Just one question. Whats stopping ya?

Please don't ask me to wait till 2014 when US withdraws. If you want a perfect time to do everything then you might as well wait till eternity.

Secondly about threats.
I touched upon it partially in my opening post. In a curious case, what you are threatening to do you have already done before. That too When you were stronger. when your economy could perhaps take it. When a superpower was your fast friend. All that has changed. This WOT has taken a pretty heavy toll on you not only in terms of present state economy but future prospects as well.

On the other hand we have more capability to deal with any thing you throw at us.

How do you plan to surprise or overwhelm us enough to cause irreparable harm? that's my question.