Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[BATMAN]

I am not taking anything away from the JF17, but one would be very naive to say that it has more "reliability."

Since 2006 the a/c is been flown and have no issues so far, and a new airframe is always more reliable than a 30 year old airframe.... i'm not going to discuss the weapon package, avionics, EW, but there is nothing that subject F-16 match to current JF-17, other than more payload and combat radius.
I have mentioned of spares required next, to keep them airworthy, which no one is willing to discuss!

As for your comment abount kamikazi nonsense, you are ill informed and the ADF F-16's are infact capable of being armed with AMRAAMs in tandem with their APG-66 radars.

Ok, when it is done than we'll discuss this matter, now discussing it seems more like a paper marriage.
And yes, if today 3 JF-17 are airborne vs. these 13 F-16... i would still say subject F-16 are on kamikazi mission.

 

[Informant]

I think that a think tankmember/analistis not someone that is part of the crowd that loves everything what happens but looks at it very critically (not cynical my friend). F16 ADF is not that superb. Exactly how many are flying around? Nada. Even Jordans dumps them. AMARG has tons of block 30-42 parked side by side... I do not mind being questioned. But please do read facts and not react emotional. Thanks.

These aircrafts would be used instead of other planes and relieve the F-16s used elsewhere dropping bombs. This means better more capable Aircrafts will get used for air defence roles.

I do know these bad boys are Block 15-20 and far from being a game changer. It is what it really is, a $5mill plane ( supposedly) which is an F-16. No matter what happens, India will have to go back change the whole game plan seeing us having another squadron on the front line.

 

[BATMAN]

These aircrafts would be used instead of other planes and relieve the F-16s used elsewhere dropping bombs.

Where do we need to drop bombs, which other low cost a/c can't do with same accuracy?

 

[elitepilot09]

Since 2006 the a/c is been flown and have no issues so far, and a new airframe is always more reliable than a 30 year old airframe.... i'm not going to discuss the weapon package, avionics, EW, but there is nothing that subject F-16 match to current JF-17, other than more payload and combat radius.
I have mentioned of spares required next, to keep them airworthy, which no one is willing to discuss!

Ok, when it is done than we'll discuss this matter, now discussing it seems more like a paper marriage.
And yes, if today 3 JF-17 are airborne vs. these 13 F-16... i would still say subject F-16 are on kamikazi mission.

1. If a new airframe is better than a 30 year old airframe, then please enlighten me as to why countries all around the world continue to purchase the F-16 over the JF-17.

2. You are right... ON PAPER the F-16 ADF is inferior to the JF-17. But once again, you would be very naive to jump to conclusions. Wars aren't won on paper after all.

3. I don't see how or why you cannot simply process in your mind that the ADF F-16 is capable of firing the AMRAAM. I simply don't understand... It's not a matter of "when it's done", it has always been done!

Once JF-17 helps Pakistan stop a conquering super power as our F-16's did the Soviets in the late 80's, then I will admit it. Until then, the F-16 will always be a superior platform.

 

[BATMAN]

why countries all around the world continue to purchase the F-16 over the JF-17.

They need more payload and combat radius, which will be offset with more powerful engine and IFR.

F-16 ADF is inferior to the JF-17

dam right... no offence meant to you.

ADF F-16 is capable of firing the AMRAAM

I will check on it tomorrow, or you post some link.

JF-17 helps Pakistan stop a conquering super power as our F-16's did the Soviets in the late 80's

If we had JF-17 result would be same.

 

[MastanKhan]

Where do we need to drop bombs, which other low cost a/c can't do with same accuracy?

Hi,

The F16 carries almost twice or three times the load of a JF 17---mirage 3/4---F7PG---and has many an hours longer loiter time than either of these aircraft wihtout air refuelling.

 

[Munir]

Hi,

You are right---. I think the first priority was to get these aircraft on the ground in pakistan---once you have them---then you can do so many things to them. Wasn't our first batch the most basic as well---and these aircaft maybe morre advanced than them.

These aircraft are 10 times their worth at this time---because they have freed up our better equipped F16's.

The new F16 can be used to designate targets and these planes can be used as bombers that just take the bombs to the targets. New planes are kept shine and new and these planes are used as bomb trucks.

I thought Munir meant spare (extra) jets for patrol duty, not spare parts.

Off course you can't buy wisdom with money, but the

I think even in case of Mirages PAF make the planes flying again. Only when planes are so bad that they can not be repaired then it is used as spare parts... Same with the cobra's. I think getting these for that price makes them still to expensive to be used as spare parts. There is a different engine. Different avionics. And I doubt these parts would end up in our MLU and block 52. Those planes are very very much used as high end. No second hand parts for sure...

 

[ziaulislam]

do we have any idea on the price tag? 5 million ?10 million per piece? or more?.
also these f-16s are available for quite some time but we buy them now, who funded this sale is another question.
when we talk of cost effectiveness, we will have to keep the cost factor in mind

 

[krash]

so PAF had 40 f-16s originally
then came 14 from the US that were embargoed +13 from Jordan
and the 18 Block 52+
that makes a total of 85 F-16s in PAF according to my calculation

Out of the original 1 was lost during the Soviet-Afghan war due to friendly fire and 7 met different accidents and were cannibalized for spares. Then in 2009 one of the 14 embargoed F-16s that we had received crashed. So that makes it 32 (original) + 13 (embargoed) + 18 (Block 52+) + 13 (Jordanian) resulting in a total of 76 F-16s in our inventory.

 

[Windjammer]

Hi,

The F16 carries almost twice or three times the load of a JF 17---mirage 3/4---F7PG---and has many an hours longer loiter time than either of these aircraft wihtout air refuelling.

Above all it's one of the most combat proven aircraft in the world with an impeccable record and probably the most widely used as well.....the effect is such that Pakistan receives a dozen extra used F-16s and the Indian forums are in a melt down.

 

[Informant]

Above all it's one of the most combat proven aircraft in the world with an impeccable record and probably the most widely used as well.....the effect is such that Pakistan receives a dozen extra used F-16s and the Indian forums are in a melt down.

UnKILL on a killing spree since yesterday.

 

[nana41]

1. If a new airframe is better than a 30 year old airframe, then please enlighten me as to why countries all around the world continue to purchase the F-16 over the JF-17.

2. You are right... ON PAPER the F-16 ADF is inferior to the JF-17. But once again, you would be very naive to jump to conclusions. Wars aren't won on paper after all.

3. I don't see how or why you cannot simply process in your mind that the ADF F-16 is capable of firing the AMRAAM. I simply don't understand... It's not a matter of "when it's done", it has always been done!

Once JF-17 helps Pakistan stop a conquering super power as our F-16's did the Soviets in the late 80's, then I will admit it. Until then, the F-16 will always be a superior platform.

JF-17 is not ready for sale to any country,although there are a few prospective customers.This machine will be available for sale in 2016 with Chinese engine (WS-13/17) only.

 

[Munir]

One needs to look at how long it took for Gripen to start export... The JF17 is already ahead of everything. It takes indeed Jf17 Block 2 to start selling. And we need to make it and test it first.

 

[araz]

JF-17 is not ready for sale to any country,although there are a few prospective customers.This machine will be available for sale in 2016 with Chinese engine (WS-13/17) only.

Could you please provide a source for this information. it is contrary to what we have been hearing.
Araz

 

[araz]

Guys.
As I have said before this is the best possible augmentation for a resource constrained AF with lack of infrastructure. People who are purporting buying more JFT need to understand that we need a hi end aircraft for the Hi Lo scenario. The price per unit sourced by posters on this forum is 5 million/ unit which is the cheapest ever for a high end aircraft. We have provisions for and may depending on our need uprate the avionics and Radar plus engine locally from the MLU kits available. I cant think of any other way of improving our position more rapidly than with these F16s. They may look shabby but guys these are palnes not your Corollas on the outside of your house that needs to shine all the time. If PAF says they are sturdy and in good shape that is what it is unless proven otherwise.
Thirdly even if we need to MLU/Update them and an MLU kit from information available is 20 million, then for 25 million you are getting a fine plane. People fighting to get the J10 dont realize the cost and the time involved in developing the infrastructure for a new plane. In support I would say that PAF can only retain JFTs either at Kamra or at Peshawar inspite of so many years evolving. Does that tell you something!!
Take it for what it is. It is the efforts of a poor AF to keep abreast of its rich cousinwithout breaking the bank. So a few hand me downs wont go amiss.
Araz