Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[VCheng]

Dude, there are no kill switches. Monitoring a sensitive technology to avoid illegal transfer elsewhere to countries like China, etc is one thing. Blocking a weapon's operational capability is totally another issue. LM, GD, Boeing, etc make world class weapon systems for the entire world. Supplying defense articles that fail to operate during its time of need would be a huge blow to their reputation. You think it a kill switch is used...anyone else (including India) will buy anything from the US defense industry???? Let's put the conspiracy theories and India-Pakistan propaganda aside please.
This is a good buy for Pakistan. Pakistan should buy the new block 52's also (the 18 left in the option). I think like many people said here, it is a MUCH better and quickly adoptable platform for the PAF. Virtually ready for deployment once these jets land as the pilots are already familiar with the technology and the flight operations, etc. It won't take them a lot to get used to the ADF version which is slightly modified from what PAF already operates and supports for decades!

These are the words from Chogy, an ex-F-15 pilot who used to post here:

QUOTE: "There is technology in these systems that is extremely sensitive that will probably remain in control of the U.S. That does not mean the weapons will not work. The GOP and the PAF were entirely aware of these limitations, yet were happy to add these jets to their inventory, regardless. That should say something - namely, even in a worst-case scenario, the aircraft would remain important and effective assets." /QUOTE.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

I don't think these ADFs can fire aim-120 !

 

[shree835]

Pakistan might have already gotten the approval. No point in releasing the news that you are looking to purchase these jets and then get bogged down by approvals. I'd say, they asked the Jordanians if they would like to sell, then went to USA to get the approval and then back to Jordan to finalize the deal.

Oh acha, really? That is so nice of you to tell us about this propaganda. Now please leave this thread if you don't have anything to contribute.

We have already rejected most advanced version of F-16 provided by USA i.e F-16IN …I don know, why you are getting hyper….??..I asked a plain and simple question…FYI…We are nowhere interested with Jordan’s F-16…So …Cool.

 

[shree835]

Dude, there are no kill switches. Monitoring a sensitive technology to avoid illegal transfer elsewhere to countries like China, etc is one thing. Blocking a weapon's operational capability is totally another issue. LM, GD, Boeing, etc make world class weapon systems for the entire world. Supplying defense articles that fail to operate during its time of need would be a huge blow to their reputation. You think it a kill switch is used...anyone else (including India) will buy anything from the US defense industry???? Let's put the conspiracy theories and India-Pakistan propaganda aside please.
This is a good buy for Pakistan. Pakistan should buy the new block 52's also (the 18 left in the option). I think like many people said here, it is a MUCH better and quickly adoptable platform for the PAF. Virtually ready for deployment once these jets land as the pilots are already familiar with the technology and the flight operations, etc. It won't take them a lot to get used to the ADF version which is slightly modified from what PAF already operates and supports for decades!

I did not said anything about India Pakistan here…So As you said India-Pakistan propaganda aside…is totally invalid…As you can see that, we bought transport aircraft from USA, but no any fighter aircraft from USA…even though USA was offering us most advance version of f-16 and f-18….AS you can see , USA never said that they have area-51, totally invisible bomber (till the date it was shot down), spying other country (till the date his own officer disclosed it)….etc….. Same case is there with KILL SWITCH....Rest is up to you...

 

[Manticore]

TAI upgraded 16 F-16As one F-16B of RJAF with MLU in 2005. Wd fit snugly into PAF F-16MLU fleet

Alan Warnes (warnesyworld) on Twitter

.... and the number grows .. that too of p.falcon2

 

[Viper0011.]

I did not said anything about India Pakistan here…So As you said India-Pakistan propaganda aside…is totally invalid…As you can see that, we bought transport aircraft from USA, but no any fighter aircraft from USA…even though USA was offering us most advance version of f-16 and f-18….AS you can see , USA never said that they have area-51, totally invisible bomber (till the date it was shot down), spying other country (till the date his own officer disclosed it)….etc….. Same case is there with KILL SWITCH....Rest is up to you...

Dude, you are mixing Jack and Coke with Jack and Lemon Juice!!!! Entirely separate issues altogether. The area 51 was a CLASSIFIED research and development area so it had to be kept as such. The "Kill Switch" rant that you guys keep bringing up.....is regarding commercial military hardware that is NOT confidential or US Government property in this case as these jets are sold to others after approval from the USG.
So PLEASE....see the irrational argument yourself before wasting everyone's time through these silly posts. A USG owned, classified area has nothing to do with US Companies doing business with others by selling jets. Later is a public entity and a small issue would bring its stocks or reputation down a LOT!!!

These are the words from Chogy, an ex-F-15 pilot who used to post here:

QUOTE: "There is technology in these systems that is extremely sensitive that will probably remain in control of the U.S. That does not mean the weapons will not work. The GOP and the PAF were entirely aware of these limitations, yet were happy to add these jets to their inventory, regardless. That should say something - namely, even in a worst-case scenario, the aircraft would remain important and effective assets." /QUOTE.

You can't use these aircraft's against USAF or NATO I believe? and that would be because IFF wouldn't register those jets as "enemies". That would be the ''limitation" in my opinion. Plus, there is strict monitoring due to sensitive tech being a part of Block 52. So that's also a limitation as to where they should be kept, inspected, etc, etc. But no country would buy jets if they are deemed useless. In other words, if an F-16 won't work against an adversary ....wouldn't a JFT or even an F-7 not be a MUCH better option as they would work?
Time to let go of your personal bias towards the kill switch deal. If these really had a kill switch......then the PAF is buying these for static ground weapons testing to see how much weapons does a Block 52 hold without structural cracks parked on the tarmac? Cuz it doesn't sound like you can fly these in a was scenario due to a kill switch.....??

 

[VCheng]

................
You can't use these aircraft's against USAF or NATO I believe? and that would be because IFF wouldn't register those jets as "enemies". That would be the ''limitation" in my opinion. Plus, there is strict monitoring due to sensitive tech being a part of Block 52. So that's also a limitation as to where they should be kept, inspected, etc, etc. But no country would buy jets if they are deemed useless. In other words, if an F-16 won't work against an adversary ....wouldn't a JFT or even an F-7 not be a MUCH better option as they would work?
Time to let go of your personal bias towards the kill switch deal. If these really had a kill switch......then the PAF is buying these for static ground weapons testing to see how much weapons does a Block 52 hold without structural cracks parked on the tarmac? Cuz it doesn't sound like you can fly these in a was scenario due to a kill switch.....??

I have no bias, those are not my words, those were written by Chogy.

The F-16s will "remain important and effective" assets, no doubt, but there are "extremely sensitive" technologies on board that will remain in US control, and to say any further is an OPSEC violation.

 

[Bilal.]

I have no bias, those are not my words, those were written by Chogy.

The F-16s will "remain important and effective" assets, no doubt, but there are "extremely sensitive" technologies on board that will remain in US control, and to say any further is an OPSEC violation.

To add to that, bugs were discovered on a crashed Turkish F-16 when certain sealed components cracked open

 

[Viper0011.]

I have no bias, those are not my words, those were written by Chogy.

The F-16s will "remain important and effective" assets, no doubt, but there are "extremely sensitive" technologies on board that will remain in US control, and to say any further is an OPSEC violation.

Did you care to read my post? Are you saying the Mr. Chogy was a part of the design of the aircraft and its technologies? Pilots are end users. They know VERY little about what sensitive stuff is in the aircraft. Any modern American jet doesn't just get built in ONE plant or factory. It has components from a RANGE of different organizations. So what took years to research, rebuild and modernize over decades, a pilot who learned to fly the jet in a few months worth of training, knows all about the mechanics? Everyone flying an F-18 or F-18 can take a guess as to what stuff is advanced and may be sensitive. I don't think they get a memo from the US Government that what it plans to sell to country X. That's a discussion WAY UP the ladder between the representatives of different US agencies / departments and the manufacturers. There is some general stuff that's out for public but the rest of the deal is always classified, specifically down to the mechanics. For example, two countries having V9 Radar may have different ranges. And both of these ranges will still be different from the USAF jets as these are export version technologies. Not what the USG buys for USAF, USN, etc.

 

[Informant]

Mr don even know Islam before talking Shit which you are doing right now Mr trade with non Muslim is allowed but not alliance with them to attack Muslims may be we should not buy F-16 but if USA gets lost from Muslim lands their is no problem in doing trade as long as product is not Haram so at least know Islam before talking shit as always

TTP are worse, they are not Muslims. So your argument completely fails.

 

[Bilal.]

MUST READ: Tell-all interview with Pakistan Viper pilot - The DEW Line

Q: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

@VCheng @orangzaib

 

[VCheng]

Did you care to read my post? Are you saying the Mr. Chogy was a part of the design of the aircraft and its technologies? Pilots are end users. They know VERY little about what sensitive stuff is in the aircraft. Any modern American jet doesn't just get built in ONE plant or factory. It has components from a RANGE of different organizations. So what took years to research, rebuild and modernize over decades, a pilot who learned to fly the jet in a few months worth of training, knows all about the mechanics? Everyone flying an F-18 or F-18 can take a guess as to what stuff is advanced and may be sensitive. I don't think they get a memo from the US Government that what it plans to sell to country X. That's a discussion WAY UP the ladder between the representatives of different US agencies / departments and the manufacturers. There is some general stuff that's out for public but the rest of the deal is always classified, specifically down to the mechanics. For example, two countries having V9 Radar may have different ranges. And both of these ranges will still be different from the USAF jets as these are export version technologies. Not what the USG buys for USAF, USN, etc.

I guess your statements in bold answer the questions wonderfully well.

 

[Viper0011.]

To add to that, bugs were discovered on a crashed Turkish F-16 when certain sealed components cracked open

Ok, then why are you guys buying these? Of course bugs will be in the plane as the US always wants to monitor its proprietary technology and wants to make sure it doesn't get used for unintended purposes such as someone giving that away to the Russians or the Chinese (hint hint to my Pakistani friends??).
But to say that for a few billions, companies like LM, GD or Boeing, etc would put their reputation and TRILLIONS of dollars worth of business around the globe at risk ....is pure stupidity. Why would the Turks, or the Indians or the French or Malaysians or Indonesians or the Saudi's NOT resort to other more secured options where the product actually works??? You saying that all these guys bought American products with a kill switch so they sit at the tarmac and all those many billions go to waste?

Common guys. Quit wasting everyone's time. No one really cares about an order of 18 F-16's or 80 total jets out of the 5000 sold around the globe. No one's going to mess up their reputation on the rest 4900 jets for the 100 odd and older jets that Pakistan has. Time to lay off the kill switch theory!

 

[VCheng]

To add to that, bugs were discovered on a crashed Turkish F-16 when certain sealed components cracked open

There is no need for tracking devices or bugs. A lot of "magic" can happen in 16 million lines of software code.

 

[Bilal.]

@orangzaib, theory? they actually found the devices in Turkish F-16. You call that a theory

And Turkey is a NATO member