Pakistan Breaks Ground on a 2,200-megawatt Nuclear Plant Project With China.

[Chinese-Dragon]

It is around a billion dollars per 1,000MW generating capacity, so something is far more wrong with this pricing than what you say.

Are you seriously saying that the UK is paying $25 billion for nuclear power plants that they could buy elsewhere for $3 billion?

Have you lost your mind?

 

[VCheng]

Are you seriously saying that the UK is paying $25 billion for nuclear power plants that they could buy elsewhere for $3 billion?

Have you lost your mind?

Please take a look at OpenEI Database quoted here:

Cost of electricity by source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FaujHistorian]

It is around a billion dollars per 1,000MW generating capacity, so something is far more wrong with this pricing than what you say.

Perhaps!

$1 billion is perhaps on the lower end of the range reserved for prime buyers like big utilities in USA.

I have seen some numbers for the Indian power and it is more around $3 billions plus minus few millions.

Either case your point is valid.

We are paying way more than what we should be paying in open market.

Thanks to our khota policies and Islamism.

peace

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Please take a look at OpenEI Database quoted here:

Cost of electricity by source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is the cost of generating electricity, like it says in the very first line.

But you were talking about the cost per 1000 MW of generating CAPACITY:

It is around a billion dollars per 1,000MW generating capacity, so something is far more wrong with this pricing than what you say.

The generating capacity will be 2200 MW, as said in the thread title.

 

[VCheng]

That is the cost of generating electricity.

But you were talking about the cost of generating CAPACITY:



The generating capacity will be 2200 MW, as said in the thread title.

That link contains detailed information including breakdown of the costs such as installation and fixed and variable operating costs, if anyone cares to read it in detail.

 

[Donatello]

Please consider the following source with good relevant data:

Cost of electricity by source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OpenEI Transparent Cost DatabasePlant TypeLevelized Cost of
Energy (USD/MWh)Overnight
Capital Cost
(1000xUSD/kW)Fixed
Operating Cost
(USD/kW)Variable
Operating Cost
(USD/MWh)Capacity
Factor (%)MaxMedianMinMaxMedianMinMaxMedianMinMaxMedianMinMaxMedianMinWind, onshore12060202.601.571.1360.0010.9510.95236.455.0250.43818.4Wind, offshore200100708.003.052.1618014.2814.284021.1813544327Solar PV5902801509.505.102.5011032.036.44000282115.48Solar CSP300200608.095.743.2014255.727.8025.50.10.106531.1621.84Geothermal Hydrothermal14060405.942.821.63229155.4168.33000958575Blind Geothermal1006.85222.9800095Enhanced Geothermal130130607.257.001.78199.69199.69134.05403059584.680Small Hydropower1404.5013000050Hydropower12020204.001.320.507513.1412.725.943.202.4293.293.235Ocean21022023011.346.004.5010000025.5Biopower17070107.662.620.36369.2866.6312.0029.124.61.018584.0475Distributed Generation480140509.801.801.318016.5816.03517.377.1275Fuel Cell1501501407.004.643.808505.655.5047.9247.925.7895Natural Gas Combined Cycle7050101.680.880.5145.6013.715.508.092.861.299384.640Natural Gas Combustion Turbine11070608.095.743.2014.5210.535.2629.903.572.67928010Coal, pulverized, scrubbed12050108.401.920.5633.6027.5013.085.903.701.629384.680Coal, pulverized, unscrubbed4040405.014.453.9484.6Coal, integrated gasification
combined cycle180806011.003.172.22130.0338.6725.0011.127.251.1580.9680.9675Nuclear12060408.203.102.2812785.6612.806.00.49.4290.249085

Thank you for the post.

Have you read the entire page carefully, as everywhere one thing shows, the cost of fuel and thus generating power from it is very volatile.

Nuclear plants are very expensive in the short term. But since the price of nuclear fuel DOES not fluctuate as much as oil/gas, the long run costs are same or cheaper.

Pakistani power industry is very problematic. Even though the country faces 4000-5000 MW shortage, plants as big as 1,200 MW lie idle because the government does not want to purchase their expensive, furnace oil electricity.


I know this as i come from a family of people who have worked in the Pakistan power industry for generations.

i can also tell you that a power plant makes profit only if it runs at a certain capacity and load factor, below which it does not make economic sense to keep it running.

Case in case, the deregulation of California power industry and the ENRON scandal.

It's not as simple as a wikipedia page.




No pun intended, and welcome back VCheng.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Dude are you sure that chinese Gen lll reactors = western Gen lll reactors ?????

The Chinese reactor is a third generation reactor.

It is based on AP1000 from Westinghouse as China had purchased the Technology from Westinghouse and added its own innovations. China had purchased the Intellectual Property Rights on the Westinghouse Acquisition.

This is a great deal for Pakistan. For those complaining about price, the deal is actually a profitable deal for Pakistan. Pakistani Nuclear scientist from PAEC have a lot more knowledge than some of the clowns here complaining about the deal. Obviously we are not privy to all the fine print details of the deal but I do trust PAEC which has vetted the deal and are tickled pink with excitement.

We should be thanking China for all the help they offer us at great prices. I think on most deals with Pakistan, China barely covers its cost. No one else has offered Nuclear TOT to Pakistan at any price. So I say Thank God for China and we should count our blessings.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That link contains detailed information including breakdown of the costs such as installation and fixed and variable operating costs, if anyone cares to read it in detail.

Give me a break.

This is what you said:

It is around a billion dollars per 1,000MW generating capacity, so something is far more wrong with this pricing than what you say.

The power plants we are talking about will have a generating capacity of 2200 MW.

So according to your claim, they should cost only around $2 billion.

That is just ridiculous beyond words. I know you have to take a stab at the news, but at least TRY to make some kind of logical sense.

$10 billion for two ACP-1000s. That;s steep.

There is at least $4 billion overpricing if not more.

My comparison is based on how much Chinese paid to USA when buying the design and material.

Now you're claiming there is $4 billion in overpricing?

Did anyone here take primary school mathematics? Where are the calculations that allowed you to come up with something so ridiculous?

 

[Donatello]

Perhaps!

$1 billion is perhaps on the lower end of the range reserved for prime buyers like big utilities in USA.

I have seen some numbers for the Indian power and it is more around $3 billions plus minus few millions.

Either case your point is valid.

We are paying way more than what we should be paying in open market.

Thanks to our khota policies and Islamism.

peace

No sir, it does not work that way.

Building a Nuclear plant or anything that has to deal with the 'Tree huggers' or 'Eco mentalists' in the developed world is very expensive. You have to spend years on lobbying to build one.

China can afford to build plants as they don't give a shyt about greenhouse bla bla.

Here in UK they are planing to build a 119 mile High Speed Rail link. Estimated cost: 43 billion GBP

43/119=0.361 billion GBP per mile. Don't you think that it is outrageous? Yes it is, and this is how mega projects affecting the environments work in the west.


So if anybody quotes project figures from the west to be applied in Pakistan/India/China or rest of the developing world, take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Give me a break.

This is what you said:



The power plants we are talking about will have a generating capacity of 2200 MW.

So according to your claim, they should cost only around $2 billion.

That is just ridiculous beyond words. I know you have to take a stab at the news, but at least TRY to make some kind of logical sense.



Now you're claiming there is $4 billion in overpricing?

Did anyone here take primary school mathematics? Where are the calculations that allowed you to come up with something so ridiculous?

I guess this discussion is like counting the chickens before they hatch.


With a huge problem with power generation in Pakistan, let's get the damn thing built.

We are short of at least 30,000 MW. Let our gov add 2200 asap

 

[Yogi]

NSG cannot do much in this regard. When US made a Nuclear Deal with India, It went to NSG for the waiver of rules for US-Indian Deal and China objected. US convinced China that it will not oppose China if China sought such a waiver for Pakistan. So the US and China already have an Understanding on this issue. The Reactors will be built in Karachi and it will really help to have surplus electricity in Karachi because it is the Financial Hub of Pakistan.

Do u have any source to back ur claim Mr.Professional or just making castles outta thin air???

OT:
$10 billion for 2x1000MW reactors looks like somebody got robbed.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Can i see some sources for these figures sir?

Bhai Sahib

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/business/worldbusiness/17cnd-nuclear.html?_r=0

is an old news.

4 plants with 1100 each

total 4400 Mega watts to be completed in 2013

Cost estimate (2006 dollars) is 5 to 8 billions.

Add whatever factor you want for 2013 start price.


And you will know Sir what I was talking about.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Do u have any source to back ur claim Mr.Professional or just making castles outta thin air???

OT:
$10 billion for 2x1000MW reactors looks like somebody got robbed.

I guess I could tell you the details of this deal but considering that it is HIGHLY CLASSIFIED Information, after informing you I will be forced to KILL YOU.


So if you think the price is too steep, Genius there must be something else included in the deal, eh ?

You think our Nuclear Scientist are dummies ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I guess I could tell you the details of this deal but considering that it is HIGHLY CLASSIFIED Information, after informing you I will be forced to KILL YOU.


So if you think the price is too steep, Genius there must be something else included in the deal, eh ?

You think our Nuclear Scientist are dummies ?

I don't know what else could be included.

Just accept that Chinese are good businessmen who consider Pakistan as investment risk, and thus we are paying 500 percent finance charges.

Sometimes things are not that classified as we would like them to be.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I don't know what else could be included.

Just accept that Chinese are good businessmen who consider Pakistan as investment risk, and thus we are paying 500 percent finance charges.

Sometimes things are not that classified as we would like them to be.

You are not privy to the details of the deal and inspite of that you are making ridiculous claims. The people at PAEC have a lot more knowledge than a self professed armchair PDF Think tank analyst who is full of hot air.

First of all who told you Pakistan has a short fall of 30,000 megawatt. Show me a link if you have any an stop pulling numbers out your ____ .

The best estimates that I have seen were in 6,000 megawatt range and today it is even less as some newer Projects have added capacity and some of the idle thermal Plants have been given back owed funds so they have started producing again.