'Pakistan at disadvantage to maintain military balance'

[Bull]

Thanks mate, this is my first time i m seeing this.

 

[JK!]

Looking at the Inventory of each side a lot of equipment that India has is based on or is Russian equipment.

Let us consider the SU30MKI.
It is the evolution of the Su27 Flanker aircraft to an extreme where the product is all it can be.

The T90 according to www.globalsecurity.org is the product of the best features from a T80 combined with the modernisation of the T72.

Even if we look at Western equipment like the German Leopard 2 has 6 different marks based on improvements to the original vehicle.

Pakistan is still at Al Khalid 1 for example which is a good base vehicle with the POTENTIAL to become something even better.

The same goes for the J10, as far as I Know there are only two variants of A and B.

Given time the equipment Pakistan is inducting and for that matter India with regards to indigenous products like LCA or Arjun can and will become better and more sophisticated.

 

[Adux]

Actually that doesnt hold water JK,

Al-khalid is a Type-90 chinese tank with an ukranian engine
There is a lot of difference between a Su-27 and a Su-30K
and Su-30K and Su-30MKI
J-10 though just been inserted into the regiments, is actually avionics wise a 3rd generation, i dont have solid proof for that, but the chinese lag behind Russian, European and US systems. The design itself is not revolutionary like an F-22, or F-35 or like the EF.

 

[JK!]

Actually that doesnt hold water JK,

Al-khalid is a Type-90 chinese tank with an ukranian engine
There is a lot of difference between a Su-27 and a Su-30K
and Su-30K and Su-30MKI
J-10 though just been inserted into the regiments, is actually avionics wise a 3rd generation, i dont have solid proof for that, but the chinese lag behind Russian, European and US systems. The design itself is not revolutionary like an F-22, or F-35 or like the EF.

That doesn't change the fact that more can be done with the the equipment.

Take the black eagle upgrade for the T80 for example.

Plus as mentioned somewhere in this post Pakistan mainly puts Western avionics into its aircraft.

I have it on good authority from a Defence recognition journal for the UK armed forces that the Su30 was evolved from the two seater Su27 UB by adding better avionics etc. The MKI resulted from improving the base Su30 design.

Say Pakistan did a Black eagle style upgrade to the Al Khalid. That would be an awesome vehicle with excellent protection.

J10 is a base from which something better can be developed and given China's improving capabilities something we may see in the future.

 

[JK!]

Al-khalid is a Type-90 chinese tank with an ukranian engine

.

so we make it even better than the original.

 

[Adux]

That doesn't change the fact that more can be done with the the equipment.

Take the black eagle upgrade for the T80 for example.

Plus as mentioned somewhere in this post Pakistan mainly puts Western avionics into its aircraft.

I have it on good authority from a Defence recognition journal for the UK armed forces that the Su30 was evolved from the two seater Su27 UB by adding better avionics etc. The MKI resulted from improving the base Su30 design.

Say Pakistan did a Black eagle style upgrade to the Al Khalid. That would be an awesome vehicle with excellent protection.

J10 is a base from which something better can be developed and given China's improving capabilities something we may see in the future.

There are structural differences mate, Su-27UB and SU-27UBK which later became SU-30. Whatever you can make on the J-10 can be made on the Su-30MKI too. cANARDS, refueling and tail-spine and 2-d thrust vectoring engines
Good example for you would be MiG-21 Bison UPgrade...

 

[blain2]

I don't think that's true. Why would Pakistan want to keep it hush hush.

Two reasons.

For one, you want to keep certain of your military capabilities underwraps since they may be introducing a technology or combat capability that the other side may not have and you want to keep your edge in that sphere.

Secondly, Pakistan does not want unnecessary attention to its military deals due to the usual political pressures arising out of geo-political considerations (case in point is the deal for Ex-RAAF Mirages that Pakistan bought, the more attention the deal got, the greater the resistance it got by way of the Indian and other lobbies).

 

[Keysersoze]

What about 162 Jaguars in service, what about the existing 49 Mirages 2K, what about the existing 57 Mig 29, what about the 42 new Mig 29Ks for the IN, what about the exisiting 18 Sea HArriers ????


If you think even after spending so much on defence we cant maintain a edge over Pakisdtan, we really have to be dumbheads.

What about the a-5's? or the f-7's (with the grifo radars for a bvr ability.I have a pic of a f-7 with a grifo radar for it)

The point I have been trying to make, is that some commentators are saying that India has pulled away. If the embargo was still in place they would be right. However it is a brand new ball game.
Bear in mind as I have stated in previous posts that a lot of the spending is going into MAINTAINING the inbalance in number that has always been there. Also there have been a few indigenous money pits which have taken a share of the budget. I am willing to bet if the LCA had been on time there would not have been the number of big ticket purchases that we have seen recently.

 

[Goodperson]

What about the a-5's? or the f-7's (with the grifo radars for a bvr ability.I have a pic of a f-7 with a grifo radar for it)

The point I have been trying to make, is that some commentators are saying that India has pulled away. If the embargo was still in place they would be right. However it is a brand new ball game.
Bear in mind as I have stated in previous posts that a lot of the spending is going into MAINTAINING the inbalance in number that has always been there. Also there have been a few indigenous money pits which have taken a share of the budget. I am willing to bet if the LCA had been on time there would not have been the number of big ticket purchases that we have seen recently.

There is a generation Gap between A-5, f-7's and upgraded Jaguars,MK2 and Mig29's.
F-7's are chinese copy of Mig-21's, Now Indian Migs have partly upgraded to bison standard with kyopo radar's which gives them BVR capablities.

 

[Keysersoze]

I believe that was the Su-27 that was beaten by the J-10. And the Su-30MKI is leagues ahead of the Su-27.



Until the rumours are backed with facts - . Will the American's allow the integration of an American radar with a Chinese aircraft? I have my doubts. An AESA? Definitely not. As far as AESA's go Pakistan has only one option AFAIK - China. The only others who can deliver one are the Israelis, Russians and Europeans. A CAESAR or AMSAR on the J-10? Again - unlikely.




Can the Eyerie guide a missile from the JF-17 or J-10? I'm not very sure about that. Will the JF-17/J-10 use a L-band radar?



As long as its better than the Jxx and comes out before, there shouldn't be a problem.



More money to be upgraded? Can you point out the technical deficiencies in the Tejas? The engine buy was only 24 units because buying a huge number makes no sense. The immediate requirement is only of 8 engines for the pre-production LCAs. The Kaveri will come online sooner or later. The GE-404 is only a stop gap arrangement.



Enjoy yourself. Pack in a parachute, just in case.

The Chinese are now buying J-10's instead of Su-30's and it was the SU-30 that they were training against.

The Grifo S-7 variant that they are looking at is a variation of a APG-68 so it will be linkable (is that a word? )Also there is a AESA upgrade according to Selex. As for options there have been a few newer ones available recently so It is not a huge prob...

Dude the greatest technical Deficiency of the LCA is that it is STILL not in use.....The fact that only 20 have been ordered is testament to this fact. the huge orders of SU-30's and the MRCA deal do not bode well for the design. the cost of buying foreign engines as well as the extra costs of design will push the jet into much more costly realms.

 

[Contrarian]

The Chinese are now buying J-10's instead of Su-30's and it was the SU-30 that they were training against.

Wrong Key, the Chinese have already bought huge quantities of Su-30MKK and it WILL be their top of the line fighter for a long time to come. J-10 is a lo combination to the Su-30MKK. Dont confuse yourself. Chinese already got huge numbers of Su-30MKK, why would they continue to buy it, they are promoting their own developed plane, as any country would do, and they will use it but as their secondary plane.

How can you say it was the Su-30? Infact for all we know, the chinese said this weird statement that their plane won, this is bullshit, let any other country buy J-10, then we will see its specs. Even Su-27's of China are more manouverable and have a better radar than the J-10's. Dont trust what the Chinese say.

Your making it sound as though the J-10 can effectively challenge the Su-30MKI. When the Chinese dont think so, why are the rest jumping on it. Its inferior to even the F-16 blk 52's. Its a good plane but good in secondary role like i said above.

Dude the greatest technical Deficiency of the LCA is that it is STILL not in use.....The fact that only 20 have been ordered is testament to this fact. the huge orders of SU-30's and the MRCA deal do not bode well for the design. the cost of buying foreign engines as well as the extra costs of design will push the jet into much more costly realms.

Whatever, we are not here to discuss LCA.

 

[Adux]

Chinese said they tested the J-10 on a J-11 which incidently is a Su-27

 

[PakSniper]

Wrong Key, the Chinese have already bought huge quantities of Su-30MKK and it WILL be their top of the line fighter for a long time to come. J-10 is a lo combination to the Su-30MKK. Dont confuse yourself. Chinese already got huge numbers of Su-30MKK, why would they continue to buy it, they are promoting their own developed plane, as any country would do, and they will use it but as their secondary plane.

How can you say it was the Su-30? Infact for all we know, the chinese said this weird statement that their plane won, this is bullshit, let any other country buy J-10, then we will see its specs. Even Su-27's of China are more manouverable and have a better radar than the J-10's. Dont trust what the Chinese say.

Your making it sound as though the J-10 can effectively challenge the Su-30MKI. When the Chinese dont think so, why are the rest jumping on it. Its inferior to even the F-16 blk 52's. Its a good plane but good in secondary role like i said above.

Firsly,. alot of Chinese sources say it was tested against their SU-27s. You are making assumptions without an ounce of knowledge because not everyone knows about it's true capabilities. If you read on sinodefense the Chinese aren't buying that many SU's anymore instead more of J-10 and J-11 are being built.

Even Su-27's of China are more manouverable and have a better radar than the J-10's. Dont trust what the Chinese say.

Again making claims without knowing the Chinese haven't revealed their radars which are being used on the J-10s.

Don't trust the Chinese....I wonder if it's u or them who built the plane

 

[Adux]

Grifo S 7, upgrade to an AESA is not be seen anywhere on the net, other than people on keypub, bR, PDF talking about it and speculating about it

 

[Contrarian]

Firsly,. alot of Chinese sources say it was tested against their SU-27s. You are making assumptions without an ounce of knowledge because not everyone knows about it's true capabilities. If you read on sinodefense the Chinese aren't buying that many SU's anymore instead more of J-10 and J-11 are being built.

I know it was a Su-27, my post was to point that it was NOT a Su-30, and that whatever is said by Chinese could simply be to sell their plane, that even that is not trustworthy.

Why the HELL would they build more Su's when they already have so many, and they just came out with a new plane which is actually decent. They would promote that plane obviously, which is the right thing to do.They have huge quantities of Su-30's and Su-27's, do you expect them to buy or make them forever to prove their faith in it?

Again making claims without knowing the Chinese haven't revealed their radars which are being used on the J-10s.

That is why i said, dont trust what they say, that their J-10 beat a Su-27.

Don't trust the Chinese....I wonder if it's u or them who built the plane

Whatever