Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Zulfiqar]

meaning?

From the air chief himself.

Watch from 2:15 onwards

 

[Beast]

Thais love their vt4s that's a given

The best thing the Thai like this tank are the gun stabilizer and the ease of steering/driving this tank. They never drive a tank like this before. Thais are well known as hell rider.

 

[Signalian]

The biggest Problem with Oplot is Russian decision to annex Crimea and ignite conflict in Donbass. Otherwise its pretty good tank.

Those who upgrade T-80 UD say its a mess.

 

[Tipu7]

Those who upgrade T-80 UD say its a mess.

Our dudes in HIT?

 

[PakFactor]

Our dudes in HIT?

Those who upgrade T-80 UD say its a mess.

Why? Due to bad design?

 

[serenity]

VT-4 comes with those electronic goodies but I'm surprised to learn about in the Thai comparison between them saying Oplot has weaker side armor. Maybe only because VT-4 side armor adds on FY4. Both are very thin and you can see the philosophy is same derived from the Soviet school tank design. Every kilogram used for front angles to keep weight and profile low. Oplot front also is impossible to beat. Some people still believe M1 and Challenger front armor is still top which is very untrue in 2020. In fact become untrue around 2010 with last generation of Russian Ukraine and Chinese additional armor developments.

Also surprised the suspension in Oplot is better than VT-4. I remember seeing pictures of VT-4 having the hydraulic type of variable suspension like K2 and Japanese tank 10 where you can change the profile against wall or to hide in crater in ground to get perfect angle for gun. Anyway maybe they are referring to some other point in suspensions.

Oplot is also fantastic tank in this 45 to 55 tonne division. I think Oplot-M T90MS and VT-4 are very close here and there in this division. Any tank will do a good job but Chinese material talking about VT-4 in past make it sound like it is better than early ztz-99 and the military researcher and reporters come out of briefing about VT-4 totally amazed and saying our army should buy this and replace 96B. They focus a lot on how well it can drive and easy to handle like a car almost. Then brag about gun stabilizer being superior generation to ztz-99. Of course the equipment for export also includes everything with latest generation because PLA is not quite have his luxury for every tank crew. PLA still operate tens of thousands of old tanks. I think next generation tank is being researched in development so we will just slowly retire or sell older tank and just use next generation tank with 99 series, 96B and 15. I hope Thailand buys more like they plan to and Pakistan bought hundreds hopefully 1000. Maybe some other countries will join and price can move down again so open up more factory space for VT-4. Then in some years upgrade FY4 with the next additional armor plate. Maybe the next PLA medium tank after 96B can be new upgrade of VT-4.

 

[Armchair]

I wonder if the NCW capability can be looped with UAVs above. That would be interesting both for SPHs and VT-4s. Feeds from above could be overlayed onto the BMS.

I am happy to read this thread, a lot of excellent posts including from some Chinese members with technical expertise. Seldom see them on PDF, hope more show up.

The only piece missing in the combined arms of PA now is the all critical CAS component.

 

[PanzerKiel]

The only piece missing in the combined arms of PA now is the all critical CAS component.

Elaborate please.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

It likely also did not help that it was the Nawaz Sharif led PMLN government,

Pressurized by opposition especially Imran Niazi

So the story goes like this.

None of Indian mbts have effective apfsds ammo against the adversary. The best they have as of now is bm42 mango, the round is certified to achieve 430mm armor at 0 degrees. This is not sufficient to penetrate ERA equipped mbts.

Second, their mainstay t72 ajeya cannot fire the same apfsds as the t90s despite both having 125mm smoothbore. Sounds funny right, here is why.
T90s has 1a45 fcs that the t72 lacks. In fact, it has no fcs which makes firing the bm42 and Invar heat round difficult as values must be fed to fcc computer.

Third , they don't have DU rounds for any of their mbts. Arjun has a tiny apfsds that can barely achieve 300mm at 0 degrees
Don't forget the bursting barrels.

They think the MS, whenever it comes, will solve these issues but no order is placed and Russians have raised the price of MS. NOT to mention, they want separate contract for ammo as usual at higher price.

Nicely milked I say. @PakFactor

I think they ordered S
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/india-orders-extra-464-t-90-tanks-from-russia/

Some Saying its MS version
https://thediplomat.com/2019/04/india-approves-procurement-of-464-t-90ms-main-battle-tanks/

 

[Dazzler]

Those who upgrade T-80 UD say its a mess.

Compared to VT4 and Alkhalid, indeed it is

gunner station

Commander station

Driver station

 

[Armchair]

Elaborate please.

CAS is a time sensitive element and PAF is unlikely to be able to provide assets for this mission set. Given the relative size of PAF compared to IAF, there just isn't enough resources to practically provide CAS.

PA now will potentially have a large number of artillery, tanks (relatively), APCs, etc. But modern combat indicates the effectiveness of an air component. Following are the force multipliers discovered in the past 40 years or so:

1. CAS either fixed wing or rotary
2. Heliborne force projection, particularly useful in the mountains
3. UAVs for recce and armed UAVs

When these elements are meaningfully added to the army, there is a force multiplier effect from their combined arms use.

The T-129 purchase, although only a small number of attack helicopters, would have provide some minor semblance to a modern combined arms effort. However, PA in actuality will have to fight with minimal air support of any kind.

Even when such air support is available, it will be few and far between, and time dependent not on PA's needs, but more on the availability of PAF to reallocate its force for a CAS mission. Which ultimately destroys the effectiveness of a truly combined arms CAS component, fighting a highly time sensitive and integrated battle.

In fact, the best way to defeat Indian armor is from the air.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

artillery

We have lesser number of Towed Artillery probably at 1:3.8 ratio

 

[Armchair]

We have lesser number of Towed Artillery probably at 1:3.8 ratio

PA's strategy over time is to replace towed artillery with either tracked or wheeled artillery.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

either tracked or wheeled artillery.

You cannot used them on LOC,Working Boundary and Western Border

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

CAS is a time sensitive element and PAF is unlikely to be able to provide assets for this mission set. Given the relative size of PAF compared to IAF, there just isn't enough resources to practically provide CAS.

PA now will potentially have a large number of artillery, tanks (relatively), APCs, etc. But modern combat indicates the effectiveness of an air component. Following are the force multipliers discovered in the past 40 years or so:

1. CAS either fixed wing or rotary
2. Heliborne force projection, particularly useful in the mountains
3. UAVs for recce and armed UAVs

When these elements are meaningfully added to the army, there is a force multiplier effect from their combined arms use.

The T-129 purchase, although only a small number of attack helicopters, would have provide some minor semblance to a modern combined arms effort. However, PA in actuality will have to fight with minimal air support of any kind.

Even when such air support is available, it will be few and far between, and time dependent not on PA's needs, but more on the availability of PAF to reallocate its force for a CAS mission. Which ultimately destroys the effectiveness of a truly combined arms CAS component, fighting a highly time sensitive and integrated battle.

In fact, the best way to defeat Indian armor is from the air.

Turkey is by far ahead in CAS with multitudes of UAV's, rotary and fixed wing aircrafts. Importantly, working in concert wiyh ground forces.