Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Archie]

that is because Germany, France, Uk are no longer fighting each other. and they know that the US will jump in in any future conflict with Russia. Plus, their forces will be operating with each other, so their lesser numbers will operate together.

and on that topic, their airforces have also shrunk over the years. they hardly have 200-300 jets each. looking at those numbers, one can argue that airforces are obsolete too.

Well fighter numbers have gone down world wide over the last several decades mainly due rapid rise in the price of advance fighters
IAF had over 1200 fighters in late 1970s mainly due to the fact that Mig21 used to only cost Rs 2 crores.
That number declined to 630 in 2018, that's because a mid level fighter today costs Rs 450 crores while a high end one will cost upward of 700 crores

UK and Germany mainly operates the Eurofighter, and are replacing their Tornadoes with F35 which are even more expensive
France has Rafale and Mirage 2000 and in future will only field 280 Rafales

All these are very expensive advanced fighters , hence the reason why UK France and Germany only field 220-300 fighters

Given the choice, Indian Airforce would rather have a fleet of 450 Rafales F4s spread across 24 squadrons , rather than a fleet of 680 fighters in 34 squadrons comprising 5 different aircrafts

 

[alibaz]

tanks battles are history. Now War will be the war of fighter jets and air defence system and later it will be converted to Missiles and maybe Nukes. Pakistan should allocate 50% defence budget for Air Force

It seems histordy because you see US attacking Iraq or Libya where nothing can be compared either qualitatively or quantitatively, still they needed, infantry, APCs and tanks to occupy grounds. In our case, certain degree of parity exist, therefore, won't be easy going for Indians. As far as we are concerned we need all type of equipments required for ground, water or air.

 

[S.Y.A]

Well fighter numbers have gone down world wide over the last several decades mainly due rapid rise in the price of advance fighters
IAF had over 1200 fighters in late 1970s mainly due to the fact that Mig21 used to only cost Rs 2 crores.
That number declined to 630 in 2018, that's because a mid level fighter today costs Rs 450 crores while a high end one will cost upward of 700 crores

UK and Germany mainly operates the Eurofighter, and are replacing their Tornadoes with F35 which are even more expensive
France has Rafale and Mirage 2000 and in future will only field 280 Rafales

All these are very expensive advanced fighters , hence the reason why UK France and Germany only field 220-300 fighters

Given the choice, Indian Airforce would rather have a fleet of 450 Rafales F4s spread across 24 squadrons , rather than a fleet of 680 fighters in 34 squadrons comprising 5 different aircrafts

Still doesnt change the fact that they will be fighting together, if they fight at all, against a well armed enemy and not against weak states and rag tag groups. so a limited number of advanced tanks makes sense.

 

[Umar Nazir]

maybe that is why US has sh*t tonnes of tanks.

exactly

 

[S.Y.A]

also, their focus is mainly on the navy, in Pakistan's case, our coastline is limited, navy's only goal is area denial. and an indo-pak war will see huge land battles. so, (good)tanks are needed, with appropriate air cover of course.

 

[Umar Nazir]

It seems history because you see US attacking Iraq or Libya where nothing can be compared either qualitatively or quantitatively, still they needed, infantry, APCs and tanks to occupy grounds. In our certain degree of parity exist therefore, won't be easy going for Indians. As far as we are concerned we need all type of equipments required for ground, water or air.

Indians will do air force attack when ever their 10-15 soldiers will be killed in occupied Kashmir. so immediate threat to Pakistan is from Indian air force . As both countries have nuclear weapons, so the chance of full fledged war where tanks can be involved is near to impossible

 

[alibaz]

Indians will do air force attack when ever their 10-15 soldiers will be killed in occupied Kashmir. so immediate threat to Pakistan is from Indian air force . As both countries have nuclear weapons, so the chance of full fledged war where tanks can be involved is near to impossible

Normally air forces have their own target list, first they try to neutralize those and then turn to ground forces. God forbid if things go beyond skirmishes or minor operation along LoC then you will see tanks and guns roaring from both sides.

 

[Yaseen1]

Don’t know whether you know what happened at Balakot or what your definition of “successful” is but you clearly don’t seem to have any idea.

The only reason their jets “successfully” left Balakot with their tails between their legs is due to PAF interception. SOP’s developed by PAF are primarily based around the Air Space Agreement with India of 1991 which, during peacetime, allows fighter jets of both sides to operate within 5kms of the LoC if taking off from a FOB. That means that effectively both sides can use supersonic jets to cross LoC for a short span of time from that distance & turn back without fear of being shot down immediately. Also, the political environment at the time had to be considered which called for restraint should IAF jets turn back which is what they did once locked on to by PAF jets. That also explains why they jettisoned their payload to ensure the aircraft was light enough to get back before PAF’s patience ran out.

Oh and IAF is buying advanced air to air BVR missiles with the Rafales so I am pretty sure those are not meant to be used for ground strikes only.

Please avoid posting if you really don’t know the background of what your talking about.

I think when jets dropped payload there was no reason by our jets not to shoot them down after locking them down and also balakot is not near border area like loc or working boundry , it is more inside our territory so not downing them after interception raises questions .Rafale is much more capable jet than mirage2000 so I am not saying that Paf is not good airforce but at the same time we should not become ignorant of our weaknesses and limitations and learn from what happened in past to be better prepared for future

 

[Aasimkhan]

immediate threat which Pakistan have to face is a frequent air attack from indian air force in Azad Kashmir. Therefore focus should be on air power and air defence system rather than tanks and other army/Naval equipment. Pakistan should buy at least 50 J10c which can counter Refale

What will be next step after air attack ? With in 24 hours tanks will be banging against each other so dont think tanks are not important, you have to take care of each step of ESCALATION LADDER.

 

[maximuswarrior]

India buys Rafaels and we buy Tanks , something not right here.

This acquisition should be seen in a separate context to Rafale. Pakistan will take necessary steps to address the Rafale threat.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

So is azm supposed to be an aircraft from star wars??

Which wont be far from reality. Raytheon already tested laser pods on Apaches.

JF-17 B3 can counter rafael, PL-15 equipped PAF is more of a threat to InAF. And why PAF is saving up money.
https://quwa.org/2019/10/12/pakistan-makes-progress-on-next-gen-fighter-program-2/
"The CAS had also revealed the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) of the FGFA, i.e., a “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”[3] Thus, the FGFA is not only a clean-sheet design, but currently slated as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance jet."

S400/500, Hisar, pantsi or hq series would have been much more sensible than a few tanks. I don't like Bajwa and his "make a choice argument".

 

[Zapper]

Why are all Pakistanis comparing the VT4 acquisition to that of Rafale or S-400 or the likes? Infact, India is locally producing 400+ T-90 Bhishmas in a new deal and this move might be a response to that.

Also, there have been reports of PA looking at the Ukrainian Oplot until recently and the VT4 might have been selected instead since Thailand also acquired it recently

 

[Khafee]

India buys Rafaels and we buy Tanks , something not right here.

What makes you think an MOU for fighter jets wasn't signed?

@Horus

 

[maverick1977]

also, their focus is mainly on the navy, in Pakistan's case, our coastline is limited, navy's only goal is area denial. and an indo-pak war will see huge land battles. so, (good)tanks are needed, with appropriate air cover of course.

if you want to relieve pressure on main land pakistan. you need a strong navy followed by Wasp Class marine assault carriers.. 4 of them can open a front north of Mumbai between Gujrat and Marhashtra. 4 Wasp means 1 brigade landing. Pakistan is raising 16 thousand Marines, 1 Div strength. do you know how much havoc can you create with that new front ?

 

[khansaheeb]

if you want to relieve pressure on main land pakistan. you need a strong navy followed by Wasp Class marine assault carriers.. 4 of them can open a front north of Mumbai between Gujrat and Marhashtra. 4 Wasp means 1 brigade landing. Pakistan is raising 16 thousand Marines, 1 Div strength. do you know how much havoc can you create with that new front ?

Once you have landed then what? Do you not realise the complexity of maintaining a supply line whilst being bombarded with every the Indians have got?

This acquisition should be seen in a separate context to Rafale. Pakistan will take necessary steps to address the Rafale threat.

I hope so for Pakistan's sake.

Can you imagine the psychological impact India will get if it losses one of those jets?? It will be a white elephant for atleast a few years till they have all 36.

India will never risk sending in one of those jets if it has inventory of only 7 jets, plus if the talks of Aesa (already tested) on blk-2 plus upgraded Aesa on Blk-03 are correct with pairing to PL-15, then the F-16+JF-17 combo with all the AWACS and EW aircraft Rafale will not have an easy time.

We need to plan for the worst case not fantasise and gloat of the positive possible outcomes. It should be full panic stations , alarm bells ringing and we should be aiming for JF18 or J20s.

Tanks are for invasion only.

Yes, it's for taking fire power to the enemy at (relatively) close range and at speed.