vishwambhar
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2020
- Messages
- 2,094
- Reaction score
- -19
- Country
- Location
I don’t disagree with you nor did I say PAs armored core doesn’t have issues, if you’ve noticed I only talk about the technological aspects of the tanks available on both sides, not the tactical or use-case ones, I leave that to those who are better qualified. At the current stage without Proper Air or SAM cover (old helicopters and no SRSAM systems), Any armored assault will be facing a very hard time, regardless of what tank we are using. Similarly india has the number advantage, they have nearly 3100 tanks and we have 2800, however of this 2800 nearly 500 are absolutely obsolete so I would not count them (type 59 and 69, though they should be entirely replaced with VT4s in a few years). But keep in mind they have two other borders to contend with too.
The PA is in the process of addressing all three of these issues as we can see. The sooner they do it, the better.
However for the specific issues you mentioned, Those issues are present over on the enemy side more than ours.
1. Apart from the T90S (1/3rd of Indias fleet), no tank can even hope to stop a standard APFSDS round fired from any Pakistani tank (as they all use the same rounds apart from VT-4, which uses even better ones). Regardless of the frontal arc or not, T72 and Arjun are hopelessly under-protected (which is also the case with our Al-Zarrars. Though if it is Equipped with ERA and keeping in mind the fact that the Indian army only uses BM42 on 2/3rds of its tanks, the rest use even weaker BM-17, maybe even the AZ can stop some rounds, that being said, the biggest threat to tanks aren’t tanks, it’s ATGMs and other smaller infantry weapons).
2. T90 and T72 have the very same auto-loader protection issue as T80UD, however we have 320 UDs, their entire fleet is T90 and T72, more russian auto-loaders than us, but then both fleets almost exclusively use tanks with auto-loaders, so I don’t see that one going either way. The only frontal arc advantage here rests with the T90S, as the T72s base armor is too weak.
3. A majority of tank combat takes place head on, from the front, basically no tank can stop any AP rounds in its sides or rear, not even the best ones. Would require too much armor and weight (note how the side is flat and the front is sloped, you’d need double the thickness on the sides to achieve the same armor).
That being said, With both BM-42 and BM-17, Indian armor could not even scratch Pakistani armor apart from AZ and maybe Type-85UG if they don’t use ERA on it.
Meanwhile Pakistani armor (any of it, even a type 59) could punch through a T72 or an Arjun from the front, the T90S would be a harder nut to crack (We do have newer ammo like BTA-4 to help with that) but on that topic and To cover your next point:
4. PAs tanks are much better equipped in the visibility (sights and spotting) department than Indian ones.
Firstly All PA tanks have Thermal sights (excluding the type 59 and 69, both of which absolutely need to be replaced, something PA is actively doing), OTOH, Half the Indian T72 fleet doesn’t have them.
No Indian tanks have CITV or Commanders independent sights (AK, AK-1, VT-4P have them), this means the gunner will be doing double duty, spotting and engaging targets, and none of their tanks have Hunter-killer modes.
On top of that all Indian tanks still use second generation thermals with considerably less range than The 3rd generation thermals employed in the better half of PAs fleet (UG, UD and AZ still use second Gen thermals, but with considerably better ammo and comparable FCS systems to the Indian 90S tanks).
This along with the fact that PA is moving on to next gen 32-bit FCS systems and has IBMS systems available in its tanks (something india only added recently and only to T90) means that in a purely tank on tank scenario, 8/10 times, PA tanks will be getting the first shot off. And that’s usually the winning point in a tank engagement.
But again, all this is purely technological/stat related. Just because PA has better tanks doesn’t mean our issues are over, as you, I and others have pointed out.
Modern warfare is combined arms warfare, one arm cannot do well unless every other arm is doing so as well, until PA addresses the issues with its other arms, the armored core won’t function to its fullest either.
PA has a long-term and very complicated Core modernization plan in place, in which they will modernize basically every core of the army. We can already see progress on this plan, it covers more than just new equipment but also training and infrastructure;
They started with aviation (T-129 and AH-1Z), but that hit a snag, so they moved on to the armored core (VT-4P, AK-1 and 2), similarly they are already testing weaponry for the other cores to induct them when the time comes (Towed and SP arty for artillery core, SR and LR SAMS for AD core, new APCs for mechanized infantry, Z-10ME and heavy gunships for aviation, everything has been tested or even picked, the list goes on). Similarly we saw them build new infrastructure for AD core and armored core.
but given our economical state, we cannot do it at an ideal pace, we do it one at a time, once the armored core is done, then another will start, and so on. PA is as well aware of its issues as anyone else, their modernization pace was both quickened and hampered by the 15 years of war on terror. While training and basic equipment standards increased two-fold, the advanced equipment that wasn’t needed in the war remained neglected, either due to necessity or a simple shortage of funds, and we are noticing that right now.
Hi brother.... Is it possible to answer superior tank force with the help of artillery who can allow our tanks to complete the task by keeping opposition tank force busy with heavy firing..... Artillery like M777 can it stop technically superior tank force??
I'm not talking about India vs Pakistan but overall scenerio if you have slightly inferior tanks compared to enemy.....
