Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Mumm-Ra]

but wht is usefulness of both i mean which is better and more powerful
and wht is most powerful apfsds in ur thoughts

These two vids should help in understanding today’s armour ammunition

 

[Dazzler]

and wht about DU vs heat
which one is more useful

Du is apfsds specifically used to penetrate armor including new gen composites. Heat rounds work well against RHA/ steel but they fall flat against composites.

Du is twice or thrice more effective due to it's density compared to tungsten. Quality du rounds achieve 20% or more penetration values.

Indians don't have du apfsds, we have several types including our own naiza series.

 

[serenity]

Fy4 at hull front, fy2 over hull roof, that's a let down.

I think FY4 not necessary for roof anyway. More heavy and more expensive and anyway applying FY4 on roof is pointless unless India using top attack missiles which I don't think they use now unless fired from helicopter or plane. FY4 or FY1 all cannot protect anyway. Maybe just good enough to repel RPG fired to roof is enough.

Which ERA is this? they look huge.

FY refer to the technology part and generation not all FY4 are identical. They can come in different layer thickness and size to fit different section. This one just looks much thicker.

Du is apfsds specifically used to penetrate armor including new gen composites. Heat rounds work well against RHA/ steel but they fall flat against composites.

Du is twice or thrice more effective due to it's density compared to tungsten. Quality du rounds achieve 20% or more penetration values.

Indians don't have du apfsds, we have several types including our own naiza series.

Do you know what Indian army's Arjun 2 will use for apfsds? Length and penetration as reported?

 

[monitor]

I think FY4 not necessary for roof anyway. More heavy and more expensive and anyway applying FY4 on roof is pointless unless India using top attack missiles which I don't think they use now unless fired from helicopter or plane.

India have Israeli spike in their inventory which i think have a top attack mode beside you need to be prepared for attach from attack helicopter too . so think Pakistani customized VT-4 should have roof applied with EY-4 too.

 

[serenity]

India have Israeli spike in their inventory which i think have a top attack mode beside you need to be prepared for attach from attack helicopter too . so think Pakistani customized VT-4 should have roof applied with EY-4 too.

But you do not realize FY4 will not be enough also to stop such attacks. The front armor's main section has around 30cm of different ceramics and compositive materials to give over half meter of steel equivalent. Also the spacing between make it look like 40cm or so and filler ingredients in between. The purpose is to ask penetrator rod to puncture through newer layers everytime. With just steel, it actually can cut through like butter and rip ahead of rod. Nowadays some Korean and German L55 new penetrators can rip through and melt its way if double warhead stream. From above no tank can survive attack. Putting FY4 will be no different just heavier against Spike missile or Javelin. But FY4 compared to FY1 may be able to withstand some old RPG attack or penetrating rifles that's all.

I think whoever bought this VT-4 decided there is no difference for purposes of this tank to put heavier and more expensive FY4 on the roof. They expect purposeful designed top attack missiles will win and only chance to defeat is using GL5. For rifles or machine gun and RPG then FY1 is enough.

Anyway Russia, China, South Korea, and Israel all think defence system is way to defeat missile. Penetrator rod is best defeat using ERA according to Russian and Chinese decision because we prefer lighter tanks which can travel faster with longer range.

 

[Dazzler]

I think FY4 not necessary for roof anyway. More heavy and more expensive and anyway applying FY4 on roof is pointless unless India using top attack missiles which I don't think they use now unless fired from helicopter or plane. FY4 or FY1 all cannot protect anyway. Maybe just good enough to repel RPG fired to roof is enough.



FY refer to the technology part and generation not all FY4 are identical. They can come in different layer thickness and size to fit different section. This one just looks much thicker.



Do you know what Indian army's Arjun 2 will use for apfsds? Length and penetration as reported?

Arjun 2 is not yet developed, and they have no rounds for it. Arjun mk-1 has a 300mm penetrating apfsds round at 2000 meters at 0 degrees.

 

[Basel]

LY80s are most probably to guard assets. We have Pantsir for it

No official confirmation of Pantsir yet, but Pakistan not show its true capability to world as SA-2 Chinese version was not announced officially.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Do you know what Indian army's Arjun 2 will use for apfsds? Length and penetration as reported?

They have recently ordered 118 Arjun MK1A

We have got PANTSIR for the reason that it is a hybrid system, it has 12 missiles on one vehicle with a range of 20 Kms and radio command guidance , the guns are secondary weapons with range of 4 Kms. Even in PANTSIR for firing of guns the system needs to be stopped and jacks lowered. However for missiles, it can fire while moving.

@Basel

 

[Basel]

They have recently ordered 118 Arjun MK1A


@Basel

Its not official confirmation like PA did for LY-80s or FM-90s.

 

[serenity]

Arjun 2 is not yet developed, and they have no rounds for it. Arjun mk-1 has a 300mm penetrating apfsds round at 2000 meters at 0 degrees.

This penetration seems very poor for modern tank. Where is the information from? 2Km from perfect angle should usually be at least 700mm of steel for best NATO performance now. 300mm basically no point in shooting at front. Some Chinese claims in so many years ago when 99 came out claim close to 1m penetration of apfsds depleted uranium round. Claim testing on T-80 with ERA punch from front and come out the back and make damage to whatever is behind. But this is with ZPT-98 gun with crazy muzzle velocity and bore pressure. But everyone think these 1000mm penetration claim is made up.

VT-4 has most attractive feature with automatic gun tracing. Only some expensive modernized fourth generation tanks carry this and basically if cooperated with computer can properly calculate shooting and do everything automatically. Gunner only requires pressing a fire button to almost certainly hit target unless target makes unpredictable move and at long range. Modern tank without automatic following of targets is like modern fighter with AESA radar nowadays. But Oplot-M and T90MS also should have this feature. Of course more expensive tanks definitely too including Arjun upgrade.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Of course more expensive tanks definitely too including Arjun upgrade.

and AK-II

 

[maverick1977]

But you do not realize FY4 will not be enough also to stop such attacks. The front armor's main section has around 30cm of different ceramics and compositive materials to give over half meter of steel equivalent. Also the spacing between make it look like 40cm or so and filler ingredients in between. The purpose is to ask penetrator rod to puncture through newer layers everytime. With just steel, it actually can cut through like butter and rip ahead of rod. Nowadays some Korean and German L55 new penetrators can rip through and melt its way if double warhead stream. From above no tank can survive attack. Putting FY4 will be no different just heavier against Spike missile or Javelin. But FY4 compared to FY1 may be able to withstand some old RPG attack or penetrating rifles that's all.

I think whoever bought this VT-4 decided there is no difference for purposes of this tank to put heavier and more expensive FY4 on the roof. They expect purposeful designed top attack missiles will win and only chance to defeat is using GL5. For rifles or machine gun and RPG then FY1 is enough.

Anyway Russia, China, South Korea, and Israel all think defence system is way to defeat missile. Penetrator rod is best defeat using ERA according to Russian and Chinese decision because we prefer lighter tanks which can travel faster with longer range.

Yes, Javlin is a scary weapon, the best way to stop will be to deploy coubter measure and then seek and destroy by computing ballistics where it came from

 

[Yukihime]

I don't think the cameo is the right answer because the paint scheme can be changed, and if VT4 are meant for North Punjab then it means they will have a new unique cameo of their own. So the credible proofs are the presence of VT4 within Pakistan's territory or the statement from officials.

how do u view the credibility of this media? do you believe the deal it said is true? thanks

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[serenity]

This is $4.88 million dollars for each tank plus weapons and maybe some parts. I think should be similar package to Thailand. Why is Thailand's tank lesser than Pakistan's received version? FY2 can easily refit as FY4 if Thai would like. They also purchased remote control machine gun system. 1500hp I find is possible only because 96B already can support it and 99 been using for so many years. But I think 1500hp should be too much because it is heavier and use more gas. 1300hp already offer top power for 52 tonnes. 1500hp I worry will cause transmission wear and require much more room in bays but the unit is more easy to repair and take out. If Thai VT-4 use 1300hp I suggest Pakistan VT-4 probably the same. Hard to imagine factory make two different types.

 

[Armchair]

This is $4.88 million dollars for each tank plus weapons and maybe some parts. I think should be similar package to Thailand. Why is Thailand's tank lesser than Pakistan's received version? FY2 can easily refit as FY4 if Thai would like. They also purchased remote control machine gun system. 1500hp I find is possible only because 96B already can support it and 99 been using for so many years. But I think 1500hp should be too much because it is heavier and use more gas. 1300hp already offer top power for 52 tonnes. 1500hp I worry will cause transmission wear and require much more room in bays but the unit is more easy to repair and take out. If Thai VT-4 use 1300hp I suggest Pakistan VT-4 probably the same. Hard to imagine factory make two different types.

If cost has been 900 million and 296 units bought, the per unit price is $3.04 million per vehicle. As for the engine - Ark Angel here suggests its 1500hp engine.