Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Both heli will good option in future inductions, but for time gap till now we can go for Chinese Z10 chines change its engine and air intake after feedback from Pakistan, 3 of intial z 10 stay in Pakistan for more then year and tested in multiple area, second option is to include limited number of MI 28 or Mi 52 mau be only 6 initially like we did will Mi 35 from russia.
So combination of Z10 and few russian Heli can give some kind heli attack option till Turkish heli not available

The alternative is selecting the Z-10ME from China, and buying a large number of them over the next 7-10 years. But my point is: stick to one strategy, don't get into ad hoc purchases here and there.

 

[Scorpiooo]

The alternative is selecting the Z-10ME from China, and buying a large number of them over the next 7-10 years. But my point is: stick to one strategy, don't get into ad hoc purchases here and there.

Agree with you, but in long we can keep multiple plateform not much but 2 to 3, as india already have large heli force and increasing aswell on high speed.
Waiting with any thing jist old cobras will dangerous senario. We need to keep our defense strong.
Once turkish heli arrive both chines and turkish can be used in long run
Z10ME is specifically agisnt shortcoming Pakistan informed but E is normal export version, we can get Customizes version as z10NP

 

[mikaal hassan]

At the end of the which ever option we chose if its Turkish or Chinese option it needs to be on similar line like jf 17 but with a bigger picture which should cover all the type of helicopters transport and attack requirement for the nation even the civilian side too .we cant have same fiasco like using multiple suppliers for different use at all .its simply shameful

 

[aziqbal]

What Pakistan has done to its helicopter fleet is nothing short of criminal

after 2001 when the counter insurgency started yes 19 years ago!! it was a wake up call to get our rotary wing into action

the so called "war on terror" showed how desperate our fleet was and what did we do> nothing

we should have established a Kamra style production line in Multan 2 decades ago

instead what did we rely on? those stupid 1960s Alouette, the famous 26 x Bell 412EP, the ancient MI-17 donated by US aid via Russia and some other rubbish AH-1 from Jordan or whatever they came from

the entire fleet should be scrapped, they rattle, they are tired and most of them expired and in very bad condition

we needed a dedicated attack helicopters and a dedicated transport helicopters in large numbers

what helicopters we should have picked and from which country we can leave to our imagination

but situation is already 20 years over due, just shocking

but its ok some Pakistani fanboys are living in a dream world saying we can build our own 5th generation fighter and new attack helicopters

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The alternative is selecting the Z-10ME from China, and buying a large number of them over the next 7-10 years. But my point is: stick to one strategy, don't get into ad hoc purchases here and there.

Sir,
There are 2 questions that come to my mind after reading your post.

1) Does China use the same engine of Z-10ME for its Utility / Transport Z-20?
2) Can you find out about what was the MLU done by PAF KAMRA for the existing AH-1's?

These question should indicate what is the reasonable time remaining on the existing PAA fleet and the next choice that Pakistan would select.

 

[Scorpiooo]

What Pakistan has done to its helicopter fleet is nothing short of criminal

after 2001 when the counter insurgency started yes 19 years ago!! it was a wake up call to get our rotary wing into action

the so called "war on terror" showed how desperate our fleet was and what did we do> nothing

we should have established a Kamra style production line in Multan 2 decades ago

instead what did we rely on? those stupid 1960s Alouette, the famous 26 x Bell 412EP, the ancient MI-17 donated by US aid via Russia and some other rubbish AH-1 from Jordan or whatever they came from

the entire fleet should be scrapped, they rattle, they are tired and most of them expired and in very bad condition

we needed a dedicated attack helicopters and a dedicated transport helicopters in large numbers

what helicopters we should have picked and from which country we can leave to our imagination

but situation is already 20 years over due, just shocking

but its ok some Pakistani fanboys are living in a dream world saying we can build our own 5th generation fighter and new attack helicopters

Agree, look India how much established heli local development line is, we can make fun of there helis capabilities, but atleast thay are trying to improve and in next few years thay will have vary solid development line and expertise. But pakistani fanbay will keep making fun of them for only self satisfaction
Its not even to late we have future ahead start thanking get in touch with lenardo , china or even turkey properly to accommodate future light and heavy attach helis along with utilities helis we need alot in different area like, army, airforce, navy, fc and government sectors as well. Even will have private sector as client too.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sir,
There are 2 questions that come to my mind after reading your post.

1) Does China use the same engine of Z-10ME for its Utility / Transport Z-20?
2) Can you find out about what was the MLU done by PAF KAMRA for the existing AH-1's?

These question should indicate what is the reasonable time remaining on the existing PAA fleet and the next choice that Pakistan would select.

1. No, the Z-10ME uses an improved version of the WZ-9 engine, the Z-20 uses the WZ-10.

2. I believe it was primarily rewiring work, not aware of any rebuild activities (could be wrong).

 

[Akh1112]

1. No, the Z-10ME uses an improved version of the WZ-9 engine, the Z-20 uses the WZ-10.

2. I believe it was primarily rewiring work, not aware of any rebuild activities (could be wrong).

I was under the impression that the Z-10ME uses a sino/french jv engine, the WZ-16(1500kW v 1000kW of the WZ-9) which is also shared with the Z-15?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

1. No, the Z-10ME uses an improved version of the WZ-9 engine, the Z-20 uses the WZ-10.

2. I believe it was primarily rewiring work, not aware of any rebuild activities (could be wrong).

Keeping these in mind T-129 will remain the choice not to mention that incase PAA can some how find a way to procure those Zulus. Though an Italian engine could also be looked upon for the T-129-2 as that is still under development and technically could have a new engine provider.

However PAA can also consider the Russian option because of commonality in engine though this is highly unlikely.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Keeping these in mind T-129 will remain the choice not to mention that incase PAA can some how find a way to procure those Zulus. Though an Italian engine could also be looked upon for the T-129-2 as that is still under development and technically could have a new engine provider.

However PAA can also consider the Russian option because of commonality in engine though this is highly unlikely.

İtalian engine ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Keeping these in mind T-129 will remain the choice not to mention that incase PAA can some how find a way to procure those Zulus. Though an Italian engine could also be looked upon for the T-129-2 as that is still under development and technically could have a new engine provider.

However PAA can also consider the Russian option because of commonality in engine though this is highly unlikely.

If not the Turks, the only engine that might be available for the T129 is Rolls-Royce one used in the Tiger. Either way, we are talking about a 1-2 year integration period, and a 1-2 year testing phase.

I was under the impression that the Z-10ME uses a sino/french jv engine, the WZ-16(1500kW v 1000kW of the WZ-9) which is also shared with the Z-15?

via AINOnline:

Likely to target markets from the Middle East and Africa, the Z-10ME was represented in a sand and green camouflage livery and was refitted with sand/dust separation filters for its improved WZ-9 turboshaft engines, which are believed to provide 30 percent more power, at around 1,200 kW. The engine exhausts are modified from the standard Z-10 sideward-facing exhausts to upward-facing exhausts, which decreases its infrared signature.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...hinas-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities​

 

[Akh1112]

If not the Turks, the only engine that might be available for the T129 is Rolls-Royce one used in the Tiger. Either way, we are talking about a 1-2 year integration period, and a 1-2 year testing phase.



via AINOnline:

Likely to target markets from the Middle East and Africa, the Z-10ME was represented in a sand and green camouflage livery and was refitted with sand/dust separation filters for its improved WZ-9 turboshaft engines, which are believed to provide 30 percent more power, at around 1,200 kW. The engine exhausts are modified from the standard Z-10 sideward-facing exhausts to upward-facing exhausts, which decreases its infrared signature.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...hinas-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities​

Huh, odd, last i heard that Z-10's were being upgraded with the Safran engine

 

[LKJ86]

last i heard that Z-10's were being upgraded with the Safran engine

Impossible.
WZ-16 is just a France-China developed civil engine for AC352 helicopter (about 7.5 tons).
AC352 used to be called Z-15, but PLA isn't interested in it.

 

[khanasifm]

If not the Turks, the only engine that might be available for the T129 is Rolls-Royce one used in the Tiger. Either way, we are talking about a 1-2 year integration period, and a 1-2 year testing phase.



via AINOnline:

Likely to target markets from the Middle East and Africa, the Z-10ME was represented in a sand and green camouflage livery and was refitted with sand/dust separation filters for its improved WZ-9 turboshaft engines, which are believed to provide 30 percent more power, at around 1,200 kW. The engine exhausts are modified from the standard Z-10 sideward-facing exhausts to upward-facing exhausts, which decreases its infrared signature.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...hinas-z-10me-showcased-increased-capabilities​

z-10 were as heavy If not more as ah-1z ~ 7000Kg max weight vs T-129 55/5600kg max weight and engine performance and max altitude was 1000 plus meter less 4500 vs ~6000 plus I think for t-129

not sure if only engine were upgrade or weight was also reduced for -z-10ME??

 

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T-129 phase 2 helicopter with enhanced self-protection suite in background

https://twitter.com/x/status/1262372869050376195