Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[dBSPL]

- Most probably helicopters of Pakistan Army will have B2 configuration (aka Atak-II). Or there will be an intermediate variant with similar features. That will include the most up-to-date countermeasures , ED and communication systems.

- Engines to be used in helicopters will be completely independent of US restrictions. There will even be D-level maintenance authority over the entire helicopter, including the engine.

- The types of ammunitions to be used shall be customizable to Pakistan's specific needs and will be free from any restrictions. The agreements with Roketsan are largely related to this.

- Turkey's attack helicopter program does not include a single variant. A wide range of programs in 3 main models up to 10ton MTOW and the system's indigenousity rates are increasing day by day. In other words, Pakistan has the chance to meet its needs in the same logistics chain, in the long term, and become the technology partner of the program.

I used an incorrect expression on the back page. I apologize for that. The correct expression should be T-629.

T-129/A EDH (Early Delivery Helicopters which are upgraded to B1-variant later) (2014)- T129/B (2016) and T129/B2/PhaseII (2020 expected): These helicopters are in 5-ton class. T-629 This helicopter will be in the 6-ton class and will also have domestic engines and transmission. ATAK-II Heavy-attack helicopter project in 10 ton class.

 

[StormBreaker]

- Most probably helicopters of Pakistan Army will have B2 configuration (aka Atak-II). Or there will be an intermediate variant with similar features. That will include the most up-to-date countermeasures , ED and communication systems.

- Engines to be used in helicopters will be completely independent of US restrictions. There will even be D-level maintenance authority over the entire helicopter, including the engine.

- The types of ammunitions to be used shall be customizable to Pakistan's specific needs and will be free from any restrictions. The agreements with Roketsan are largely related to this.

- Turkey's attack helicopter program does not include a single variant. A wide range of programs in 3 main models up to 10ton MTOW and the system's indigenousity rates are increasing day by day. In other words, Pakistan has the chance to meet its needs in the same logistics chain, in the long term, and become the technology partner of the program.

Modify my invoice mate,
I need ToT as well !!!
Nothing less than that

I used an incorrect expression on the back page. I apologize for that. The correct expression should be T-629.

T-129/A EDH (Early Delivery Helicopters which are upgraded to B1-variant later) (2014)- T129/B (2016) and T129/B2/PhaseII (2020 expected): These helicopters are in 5-ton class. T-629 This helicopter will be in the 6-ton class and will also have domestic engines and transmission. ATAK-II Heavy-attack helicopter project in 10 ton class.

Are you positive? Or just a thought ?

 

[MastanKhan]

@Mangus Ortus Novem

Do you see this from a different perspective?

A possibility not to be ignored at least !!

The article mentions the engine sourcing issue related to us-turk relations, while at the same time, Pak gives an extended period.

Maybe AH-1Z Vipers coming after all soon !!!

WHAT DO YOU SAY ?

Hi,

That is a bad decision---should not have been done---.

Pakistani generals do it to pakistan twice---damage pakistan's integrity---. First by placing the order thru Turkey----knowing very well where the Turkey US and pakistan US relations were headed and now this sabtage again----.

That puts the program back by 5 years---. The Turkish engine has to go thru the growing pains---.

Should have cancelled the order and gone with China---.

But the pakistani Generals and politicians have already spent the kick backs---or bribes as they call---.

Now they cannot go to china---.

Nation sold for dollars one more time---.

Boeings are always crashing, scary.

Shot down would be an other definition of boeing.

 

[dBSPL]

(...)
--or bribes as they call---.
(...)
Nation sold for dollars one more time---.

Turkish companies bribe Pakistani generals to get this tender? I'd appreciate, if you give some details.

 

[MastanKhan]

Turkish companies bribe Pakistani generals to get this tender? I'd appreciate, if you give some details.

Hi,

Turkish companies or US companies don't bribe pakistanis---. Pakistanis prepare two contracts---one for the pakistani public---one for the seller to sign---.

For example---pakistanis were told that the US is holding pakistani funds of F16's and payments were being made---continuously---.

When the pakistani ambassdor asked for the money back---the US stated ok---we have your like 400 million dollars---ambassador stated but the deal payment was for 600 million dollars---to that the americans replied---oh---the 200 million dollars was held back for your dear leader Benazir Bhutto---.

 

[hyperman]

Should have cancelled the order and gone with China---

I thought the whole point was to diversify the assets, to not be dependent on a single supplier? I think you are selling the Turks short, that is a very good helicopter, and one which can probably be powered by a similar Safran engine or a Ukrainian engine.
.

to that the americans replied---oh---the 200 million dollars was held back for your dear leader Benazir Bhutto---.

source?

 

[dBSPL]

Pakistani generals do it to pakistan twice---damage pakistan's integrity---. First by placing the order thru Turkey----knowing very well where the Turkey US and pakistan US relations were headed and now this sabtage again----.

That puts the program back by 5 years---. The Turkish engine has to go thru the growing pains---.

Should have cancelled the order and gone with China---.

I also need to give a little information about this polemics:

The final explanation about engine was made by Prof. Akşit, GM of TEI.

In the TS1400 project, the core engine was ignited in early 2017. More than hundreds of test procedures were successfully passed for 2 years. The 1500HP variant of engine was assambled in 2019 and succesfully worked. Production planning activities have been ongoing since 2019. The first engine for the T-625 multipurpose helicopter will be delivered in 2020 and will make its first flight this year.Of course, the integration of this engine into the Atak helicopter coul be created a delay for Pakistan, but this turboshaft program of TEI is in more forward phase than you think.

 

[Pandora]

Even if Turkey develops new engine it will be subjected to rigorous testing in Pakistan under different climates and weather conditions. This mean it will take at least a year for Pakistan to decide it new engine is good enough to operate in pakistani conditions. Turkish engine is new and will have its issues so if we don't get US engines then this deal is as good as dead. Pakistan will most likely approach china or russia for another deal.

 

[doorstar]

it seems like a very Trump move,

from before his time

Pakistan has agreed to give us another year

Pakistan would agree to a 50 year extension due to Turks extorting them. if Pakistan were to say enough is enough, the turkeys will demand that Karkey judgment be paid in full

 

[dBSPL]

The ATAK helicopters will start to fly with the TEI engine from 2021 onwards. (SSB's official statement)

But what I don't understand that the main reason for this extension is the engine problem? Has the US reported its final decision to Pakistan?

Currently the production line of this helicopter is active, in other words LHTEC-CTS800 sets continue to arrive. Total deliveries increased to more than 50s and the mainframe of the helicopters produced for Pakistan is on the production line.

As far as I know, the US also did not deliver Pakistan's AH-1Z helicopters with serial numbers 786-064 and 786-066 . Why is the US pushing Pakistan so hard?

 

[GriffinsRule]

This is great news and also an indication of how unimpressed Pakistan was with the Chinese alternative.
I would rather we wait even two years to get a sanctions proof helicopter from Turkey that we can use to build upon our aerospace industry then to throw up our hands and money and jump on a different bandwagon.
As is, the ops against terrorists have subsided significantly and the current Cobra fleet will soldier on for quiet some time anyways. If we really need a shot in the arm due to any delays in Turkey, the army can always opt to buy Mi-35s, now that we have already got a few in the inventory.
Good news on all accounts and best of luck to our Turkish brothers in developing an alternate engine.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Most probably helicopters of Pakistan Army will have B2 configuration (aka Atak-II)

Same price?

 

[mingle]

The ATAK helicopters will start to fly with the TEI engine from 2021 onwards. (SSB's official statement)

But what I don't understand that the main reason for this extension is the engine problem? Has the US reported its final decision to Pakistan?

Currently the production line of this helicopter is active, in other words LHTEC-CTS800 sets continue to arrive. Total deliveries increased to more than 50s and the mainframe of the helicopters produced for Pakistan is on the production line.

As far as I know, the US also did not deliver Pakistan's AH-1Z helicopters with serial numbers 786-064 and 786-066 . Why is the US pushing Pakistan so hard?

Afghanistan US believes Pak has some kind of Magic to solve all her ills in Afghanistan.

 

[Invictus.inc]

Scrap this bullshit deal
If the Turks can't hold their part of the deal why keep waiting?
It's not like their selling us the hand of the God
It's gonna take another 2 years for them to develop that engine(If ever) not to mention the retrials of the new engines in Pakistans harsh environment

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

This is great news and also an indication of how unimpressed Pakistan was with the Chinese alternative.
I would rather we wait even two years to get a sanctions proof helicopter from Turkey that we can use to build upon our aerospace industry then to throw up our hands and money and jump on a different bandwagon.
As is, the ops against terrorists have subsided significantly and the current Cobra fleet will soldier on for quiet some time anyways. If we really need a shot in the arm due to any delays in Turkey, the army can always opt to buy Mi-35s, now that we have already got a few in the inventory.
Good news on all accounts and best of luck to our Turkish brothers in developing an alternate engine.

The Turkish folks are working day and night with the Ashk-i Ibadet to get it done...

Scrap this bullshit deal
If the Turks can't hold their part of the deal why keep waiting?
It's not like their selling us the hand of the God
It's gonna take another 2 years for them to develop that engine(If ever) not to mention the retrials of the new engines in Pakistans harsh environment

What do you think the benchmark for the Turkish engines would be????