Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[cabatli_53]

^sorry man, MFD means

MFD= Multi Function Display...

 

[TaimiKhan]

^sorry man, MFD means

this is MFD

Multi-function display - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HMD is different then MFDs

 

[gowthamraj]

^ Thanks for answers, is the HMD is indigenous of turkey

 

[Peregrine]

hi
can any one draw the comparison between T-129, apache & tiger, i want to get an idea about the capabilities of T-129 in contrast to these gunship heli's, Thanks

 

[Jigs]

hi
can any one draw the comparison between T-129, apache & tiger, i want to get an idea about the capabilities of T-129 in contrast to these gunship heli's, Thanks

T-129
* Crew: 2 pilots
* Length: 14.6 m (47 ft 11 in)
* Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
* Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
* Disc area: 444.9 m² (4,789 ft&#178
* Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
* Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor
* Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
* Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
* Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
* Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)

Armament
* Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
* Rockets: 4 pods with
o 38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
o 76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
o 12.7 mm machine gun-pod
* Missiles:
o 8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, Roketsan Cirit anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
o 4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles



Apache

* Crew: 2 (pilot, and co-pilot/gunner)
* Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning)
* Rotor diameter: 48 ft 0 in (14.63 m)
* Height: 12.7 ft (3.87 m)
* Disc area: 1,809.5 ft² (168.11 m&#178
* Empty weight: 11,387 lb (5,165 kg)
* Loaded weight: 17,650 lb (8,000 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× General Electric T700-GE-701 and later upgraded to T700-GE-701C (1990–present) & T700-GE-701D (AH-64D block III) turboshafts, -701: 1,690 shp, -701C: 1,890 shp, -701D: 2,000 shp (-701: 1,260 kW, -701C: 1,490 kW, -701D: 1,490 kW) each
* Fuselage length: 49 ft 5 in (15.06 m)
* Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor, 4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment
Performance

* Never exceed speed: 197 knots (227 mph, 365 km/h)
* Maximum speed: 158 knots (182 mph, 293 km/h)
* Cruise speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h)
* Range: 257 nmi (295 mi, 476 km) with Longbow radar mast
* Combat radius: 260 nmi (300 mi, 480 km)
* Ferry range: 1,024 nmi (1,180 mi, 1,900 km)
* Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m) minimum loaded
* Rate of climb: 2,500 ft/min (12.7 m/s)
* Disc loading: 9.80 lb/ft² (47.9 kg/m&#178
* Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (310 W/kg)

Armament

* Guns: 1× 30 × 113 mm (1.18 × 4.45 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds
* Hardpoints: Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
* Rockets: Hydra 70 FFAR rockets
* Missiles: combination of AGM-114 Hellfire, AIM-9 Sidewinder, and AIM-92 Stinger




Eurocopter Tiger
* Crew: 2 (pilot, weapon systems officer)
* Length: 14.08 m fuselage (46 ft 2 in)
* Rotor diameter: 13.00 m (42 ft 8 in)
* Height: 3.83 m (12 ft 7 in)
* Disc area: 133 m² (1,430 ft&#178
* Empty weight: 3,060 kg (6,750 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 6,000 kg (13,000 lb)
* Internal fuel capacity: 1,080 kg (2,380 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca/MTU MTR390 turboshafts, 873 kW (1,170 shp) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: 290 km/h with mast, 315 km/h without mast (157 knots, 181 mph with mast, 170 knots or 196 mph without mast)
* Range: 800 km (430 nm, 500 mi) combat (with external tanks in the inboard stations: 1300km)
* Service ceiling: 4,000 m (13,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 10.7 m/s (2,105 ft/min)

Armament

* Guns: ** 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30 cannon in chin turret

On its two inner hardpoints and two outer hardpoints the Eurocopter Tiger can carry a combination of the following weapons:

* on each of its two inner hardpoints:
o 2x 20 mm (0.787 in) machine cannons in a pod, or
o 22× 68 mm (2.68 in) SNEB unguided missiles in a pod, or
o 8x AGM-114 Hellfire laser guided missiles
* on each of its two outer hardpoints:
o 2× Mistral air-to-air missiles, or
o 12× 68 mm (2.68 in) SNEB unguided missiles in a pod

 

[Peregrine]

Hello jigs,
Thanks a lot, much obliged.

 

[sancho]

Brochure shows symetric payload but we all know T129 will be able to carry 12 hellfire missiles assymetrically...

Actually it says (page 3, bottom right):

Asymmetrical Weapons Load Capability

- 20 mm Turreted Gun System
- FOUR WING STORE STATIONS
- 8 ATGM Missiles
- 4 x 19 70 mm (2.75”) Rockets...

I guess you get the point, that it is not in the same class like the Apache, even Agusta Westland, place the Apache AH MK1, like they call their upgraded version of the Apache, a class above the T129 on their website.
However, the T129 will be a good addition for turkish forces anyway.

 

[Peregrine]

hi^^
this thread is about its evaluation & induction prospects in PA. by looking at it's comparison with Apache & Tiger, it doesn't seem a bad choice for Pakistan Army

 

[Jigs]

It will probably be cheaper then both those choices too.

 

[cabatli_53]

hi
can any one draw the comparison between T-129, apache & tiger, i want to get an idea about the capabilities of T-129 in contrast to these gunship heli's, Thanks

 

[sancho]

hi^^
this thread is about its evaluation & induction prospects in PA. by looking at it's comparison with Apache & Tiger, it doesn't seem a bad choice for Pakistan Army

What about the Chinese WZ-10? Same class, similar capabilities and should be available even earlier right? Would be intersting to see those 2 in a direct competition.

 

[Peregrine]

What about the Chinese WZ-10? Same class, similar capabilities and should be available even earlier right? Would be intersting to see those 2 in a direct competition.

hi
Yup, you are right & if i am not wrong it was also under evaluation but i am not sure. but if both of them have similar capabilities then i think Pakistan should go for T129 as Pakistan already has a lot of Chinese tech. so for the sake of diversity T129 should have an edge over WZ-10

 

[Hindustan Fighter]

It will probably be cheaper then both those choices too.

What would be the estimated cost of T-129 (fly away cost).

 

[Super Falcon]

well no idea i have on its operational cost but similar to cobra i think

 

[sancho]

hi
Yup, you are right & if i am not wrong it was also under evaluation but i am not sure. but if both of them have similar capabilities then i think Pakistan should go for T129 as Pakistan already has a lot of Chinese tech. so for the sake of diversity T129 should have an edge over WZ-10

Seems like PA have other plans:

Pakistan wants combat copters
U.S. asked to supply arms for 'silent surge' against terrorists

Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.

"I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight secondhand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban," Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, said in an interview with The Washington Times.

The ambassador said, "Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment. We have had tremendous attrition and a lot of loss of lives because of not having the right equipment."

The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the U.S. government is aware of its ally's military wish list.

"The Pakistani military's interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst," Mr. Morrell said.

Pakistan's military last year reversed its policy of signing cease-fire agreements with local tribal governors as it did in 2007 and 2008 in the regions thought to be hiding places for senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.

The new "silent surge," however, also has cost the lives of thousands of Pakistani soldiers, including generals. The ambassador said Pakistan has lost more than 600 officers affiliated with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), its powerful and influential military intelligence arm.

Pakistan also has lost three one-star generals and one three-star general in combat. Five other generals have been killed in terrorist attacks.

Pakistani military officials have said their forces have a total of just 26 combat and transport helicopters for a counterinsurgency war in a mountainous region where helicopters provide a critical advantage.

Pakistan wants combat copters - Washington Times