PAKISTAN Army's colonel's daughter killed a 40 years old man colonel paid 6.9 million rupees case closed .

[SQ8]

The thing with the US model is that in the US, over the course of let's say 30 years or so, you can get enough money to pay off the loan.

Pakistan main aap middle class zindagi guzaro, poori zindagi naukri kar kay bhi you will not be able to gather 1 crore or something. Couple that with the astronomical interest rates, and voila.

If the salary/expense ratio was equal to that of the US or other developed countries, I would have agreed with this.

Then why should the military get plots or houses regardless?
The US military gets the same salary situation as the rest of the country and if for whatever reason inflation or otherwise makes housing unaffordable they will take the same hit. If land and houses are easily accessible to the military then make it the same for the middle class even besides state servants - why have this class separation ?
The military’s lower ranks are feeling the heat as well but the parachute of the land and houses remains - take that away as well. Saath marain, saath jeeyien..

Either an employee from Liaqat Hospital should also be able to get land and housing at similar discounts or they shouldn’t have to pay taxes so just one or two institutions can do it.

Unless every institutions(incl. judiciary and bureaucrats) truly behaves like the public servants they are - no need to sponsor perks

 

[Erieye]

religiousness includes shunning corruption. a bearded mullah cannot be a liar or corrupt, you are the one labelling corrupt bearded guys as mullahs. i, too, spit on people who are haramkhors (drunks and druggies) no matter what they have done. both are equally disgusting, and equally haramkhors. one's sin doesnt justify the sin of other.

one's sin is between him and Allah, the other's sin contributes to the destruction of society,

i much prefer a man who drinks in private but is loyal, to a pretend bearded mullah who corrupts society by manipulating religious sentiment.

 

[Jango]

Then why should the military get plots or houses regardless?
The US military gets the same salary situation as the rest of the country and if for whatever reason inflation or otherwise makes housing unaffordable they will take the same hit. If land and houses are easily accessible to the military then make it the same for the middle class even besides state servants - why have this class separation ?
The military’s lower ranks are feeling the heat as well but the parachute of the land and houses remains - take that away as well. Saath marain, saath jeeyien..

Either an employee from Liaqat Hospital should also be able to get land and housing at similar discounts or they shouldn’t have to pay taxes so just one or two institutions can do it.

Unless every institutions(incl. judiciary and bureaucrats) truly behaves like the public servants they are - no need to sponsor perks

Well the logic for giving perks to a military man are that he could have went and become a doctor, or gotten into the corporate sector, but instead he chose to come into the military, forego the corporate salaries and life, and served the country. So while he could have earned millions over the course of his life in the civilian sector, he just made do with the sarkari tankhwa.

Conceptually, makes some sense. But then you have to ask, what proportion of the LC graduates actually would have been successful in corporate life? Not all of them for sure. What's the minimum for getting into a LC? 60%? You won't be becoming a doctor or an engineer from a good place with that much marks in FSc.

But I agree with you, there needs to be a better way of rewarding long service to the country than blanket nawazishat.

One mechanism that I just came up with right now is that if an officer already has a home in his name, he doesn't get the perks. While those who do not have a home in their name get one, but it's in Askari or somewhere else, and he cannot sell it off for the next 10 years. Or just provide loans through Askari bank at negligible rates, or something like a 401(k). There can be many alternatives once you start to think about it.

 

[SQ8]

Well the logic for giving perks to a military man are that he could have went and become a doctor, or gotten into the corporate sector, but instead he chose to come into the military, forego the corporate salaries and life, and served the country. So while he could have earned millions over the course of his life in the civilian sector, he just made do with the sarkari tankhwa.

Conceptually, makes some sense. But then you have to ask, what proportion of the LC graduates actually would have been successful in corporate life? Not all of them for sure. What's the minimum for getting into a LC? 60%? You won't be becoming a doctor or an engineer from a good place with that much marks in FSc.

But I agree with you, there needs to be a better way of rewarding long service to the country than blanket nawazishat.

One mechanism that I just came up with right now is that if an officer already has a home in his name, he doesn't get the perks. While those who do not have a home in their name get one, but it's in Askari or somewhere else, and he cannot sell it off for the next 10 years. Or just provide loans through Askari bank at negligible rates, or something like a 401(k). There can be many alternatives once you start to think about it.

There are plenty of controls to do so - but then knowing Pakistanis they will find ways to circumvent it. I know of military men who were discussing in the drawing room how to cheat their own system of land allocation.. so the problem is what I come back to - culturally corrupt nations need to be whittled down to nothing before being given back perks.

The entire logic of earning “millions” in the private sector is flawed simply because at the end the metrics nor all the candidates chosen in the LCs are representative of the “millions” earners.

 

[SQ8]

actually, this is the first measure, capability comes next (if the guy is corrupt, hang him, if incompetent, remove him), at least for Muslims anyways.
"Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you"

(Qur'an 49:13)
It was asked to Allah's Messenger (S.A.W.S) as to who was the most worthy of respect amongst people. He S.A.W.S. said: The most God-conscious amongst you.
(Sahih Muslim)

Messenger of Allah S.A.W.S. also said,
"There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab; nor for white over the black nor for the black over the white except in piety. Verily the best among you is he who has the most taqwah (piety)."
(Bukhari)

a drunkard, and a druggie is neither muttaqi, nor God-concious, nor righteous. he a sinner and should be punished as such in public and stripped of his office.

Whataboutism again that has NOTHING to do with what is being pointed out. Your measure of Muttaqi has nothing to do with the verses and Hadith you copy pasted but rather on visual and public display.

Taqwah isn’t a certificate you get to hand out

 

[Jango]

There are plenty of controls to do so - but then knowing Pakistanis they will find ways to circumvent it. I know of military men who were discussing in the drawing room how to cheat their own system of land allocation.. so the problem is what I come back to - culturally corrupt nations need to be whittled down to nothing before being given back perks.

The entire logic of earning “millions” in the private sector is flawed simply because at the end the metrics nor all the candidates chosen in the LCs are representative of the “millions” earners.

Agreed on all counts.

We need a major cultural shift.

 

[Gripen9]

Well the logic for giving perks to a military man are that he could have went and become a doctor, or gotten into the corporate sector, but instead he chose to come into the military, forego the corporate salaries and life, and served the country. So while he could have earned millions over the course of his life in the civilian sector, he just made do with the sarkari tankhwa.

Conceptually, makes some sense. But then you have to ask, what proportion of the LC graduates actually would have been successful in corporate life? Not all of them for sure. What's the minimum for getting into a LC? 60%? You won't be becoming a doctor or an engineer from a good place with that much marks in FSc.

But I agree with you, there needs to be a better way of rewarding long service to the country than blanket nawazishat.

One mechanism that I just came up with right now is that if an officer already has a home in his name, he doesn't get the perks. While those who do not have a home in their name get one, but it's in Askari or somewhere else, and he cannot sell it off for the next 10 years. Or just provide loans through Askari bank at negligible rates, or something like a 401(k). There can be many alternatives once you start to think about it.

Well the US Military does a few more perks. Such as GI Bill which is tuition fee funding after certain years of service -- that is a key driver in getting enlisted personnel to sign up.
VA Medical -- Medical coverage for veterans
And Re-enlistment bonuses

Also, a big chunk transition to Army/Airforce Navy reserve where they serve one weekend a month and keep current while drawing a 50% salary I believe.

 

[SQ8]

Well the US Military does a few more perks. Such as GI Bill which is tuition fee funding after certain years of service -- that is a key driver in getting enlisted personnel to sign up.
VA Medical -- Medical coverage for veterans
And Re-enlistment bonuses

Also, a big chunk transition to Army/Airforce Navy reserve where they serve one weekend a month and keep current while drawing a 50% salary I believe.

GI bill encourages further education
VA medical has the same analogy with all the CMHs spread out in Pakistan - although the VA only does vets.

Re-enlistment is cash

No where does a veteran just get a house or land in prime real estate just like that. Even when you apply for a VA loan there are strict conditions that not only is the property new , you also have to demonstrate living in it . Not that certain vets don’t circumvent it at times and get into the real estate business - but the system has tight checks.

This British raj/feudal inheritance of giving away lands to “laad saab” has to end

 

[Gripen9]

GI bill encourages further education
VA medical has the same analogy with all the CMHs spread out in Pakistan - although the VA only does vets.

Re-enlistment is cash

No where does a veteran just get a house or land in prime real estate just like that. Even when you apply for a VA loan there are strict conditions that not only is the property new , you also have to demonstrate living in it . Not that certain vets don’t circumvent it at times and get into the real estate business - but the system has tight checks.

This British raj/feudal inheritance of giving away lands to “laad saab” has to end

Agreed.
I was just finding analogous to incentivizing people to serve (asa response to @Jango rationale of giving perks for people to join the armed forces)

same thing needs to happen for judges and bureaucrats -- High salary with lifetime pension and health benefits. No 300 litres of petrol with 2 cars and 5 cooks, 2 guards etc

 

[ziaulislam]

I'm surpised he had to pay that much.

My father was grade 22 highest paid officer.
I couldn't afford a car nor 1 million rupees let alone 6.9 million

Hence by default either he had family wealth or is corrupt.

Now how does every colonel has so much family worth is beyond me

This concept of wealth beyond means is not foreign to IRS or any western countries but is foreign in Pakistan

 

[SQ8]

Agreed.
I was just finding analogous to incentivizing people to serve (asa response to @Jango rationale of giving perks for people to join the armed forces)

same thing needs to happen for judges and bureaucrats -- High salary with lifetime pension and health benefits. No 300 litres of petrol with 2 cars and 5 cooks, 2 guards etc

Laad saabs - Pakistan just replaced the white flesh brits with the brown sahibs

AND

The people were and are ok with it - India was ready for freedom - the crowd that lives in Pakistan isnt.

 

[SaadH]

They do, after reaching a certain grade. In Islamabad, the ones I know got plots in I-8, F and G-sectors.

No they don't, only bureaucrats, judiciary and other leeches do. Teachers and other folks working in less glamorous departments don't and certainly not in the same class as DHA.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well the logic for giving perks to a military man are that he could have went and become a doctor, or gotten into the corporate sector, but instead he chose to come into the military, forego the corporate salaries and life, and served the country. So while he could have earned millions over the course of his life in the civilian sector, he just made do with the sarkari tankhwa.[/qupte]

Wrong, the FA pass lot doesn't have what it takes to get into engineering or medicine.
or pursue science at all in terms of academic or intellectual qualifications.
So the ones opting for khaki, are by definition by in large, the dumdums of the society.
they are at the bottom quartile when it comes to IQ.

Conceptually, makes some sense. But then you have to ask, what proportion of the LC graduates actually would have been successful in corporate life? Not all of them for sure. What's the minimum for getting into a LC? 60%? You won't be becoming a doctor or an engineer from a good place with that much marks in FSc.

[/QUOTE]

Wrong again, people who are NOT in the military actually contribute to the GDP, and make the country.
Be that civil engineering, mechanical, electrical etc etc etc ...
However Military only CONSUMES on the promise of providing security from external threats.
That does not include running commercial ventures like
Universities
Banks
Fertilizer companies,
food grain business
personal security business.
and last but not the least, personal video and audio business.

But I agree with you, there needs to be a better way of rewarding long service to the country than blanket nawazishat.

One mechanism that I just came up with right now is that if an officer already has a home in his name, he doesn't get the perks. While those who do not have a home in their name get one, but it's in Askari or somewhere else, and he cannot sell it off for the next 10 years. Or just provide loans through Askari bank at negligible rates, or something like a 401(k). There can be many alternatives once you start to think about it.

[/QUOTE]

How about first defining the level of service and quality of service ?
How many days out of 365 does an officer perform a constructive task ?
and how many tasks performed in 2022 were any different from 2012, 2002, 1992, 1982 ....
and yet they screw up.

Now before you instinctively try to conjure up feel good huubla ..
May i suggest that you go through some reading.
There is a book written several centuries ago.
It's called |The republic| by Plato.

 

[ziaulislam]

Well the logic for giving perks to a military man are that he could have went and become a doctor, or gotten into the corporate sector, but instead he chose to come into the military, forego the corporate salaries and life, and served the country. So while he could have earned millions over the course of his life in the civilian sector, he just made do with the sarkari tankhwa.

Conceptually, makes some sense. But then you have to ask, what proportion of the LC graduates actually would have been successful in corporate life? Not all of them for sure. What's the minimum for getting into a LC? 60%? You won't be becoming a doctor or an engineer from a good place with that much marks in FSc.

But I agree with you, there needs to be a better way of rewarding long service to the country than blanket nawazishat.

One mechanism that I just came up with right now is that if an officer already has a home in his name, he doesn't get the perks. While those who do not have a home in their name get one, but it's in Askari or somewhere else, and he cannot sell it off for the next 10 years. Or just provide loans through Askari bank at negligible rates, or something like a 401(k). There can be many alternatives once you start to think about it.

Because he could have earned million he should now do loot maar.

 

[TheSolution]

There are plenty of controls to do so - but then knowing Pakistanis they will find ways to circumvent it. I know of military men who were discussing in the drawing room how to cheat their own system of land allocation.. so the problem is what I come back to - culturally corrupt nations need to be whittled down to nothing before being given back perks.

The entire logic of earning “millions” in the private sector is flawed simply because at the end the metrics nor all the candidates chosen in the LCs are representative of the “millions” earners.

Or incredibly strict punishments that deter people from thinking about it. But they'd probably bypass those as well.

Either way having zero perks or strict punishments is not going to happen because those who are guilty of such things are the same ones in charge so why would they pass such laws that make their goals more difficult.