Pakistan Army's 6th Armor Division in Tonight with Fareeha ; A must watch!

[third eye]

There are strategies devised in the battlefield to counter enemy ATGM's. Indian has a big arsenal of excellent modern ATGM's like Milan, Spike, Kornet-E etc, then there are local ones like Nag.

A few tactics that battle commanders employ to avoid, engage or destroy enemy ATGM teams are:

1. Use of Infantry ahead of tanks.


View attachment 332262

This helps to identify and destroy the ATGM positions by dismounted infantry while keeping tanks out of range till all ATGM operators are killed.

What is suggested here violates the first principle of armour warfare. The essential attributes of tanks are lost & not exploited in such a situation.

A tank is most vulnerable when its static or in a defined location.Use of infantry ahead of tanks is not recommended nor would any armour commander want to allow this. The only exception being across an obstacle where troops need to be sent across to gain a foothold. Maybe in built up areas too.

Sending infantry ahead to ' identify' ATGMs will never work nor is recommended. The ATGMs are mobile too and would never expose themselves by engaging foot soldiers.

All weapons systems are meant to engage specfic types of targets. A good ATGM crew will lie dogo & wait for the tanks to come in range.

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

This is what i could come up with. The full map is small and text can hardly be read so i have cropped it below at certain places to magnify a few events. you can save it and open it to have clear view hopefully.
You can also click on map to zoom in automatically

Red zone is Syrian.
Green zone is Rebels.
Yellow is my addition.

Infantry is entrenched along yellow defensive line.

Defending Aleppo artillery College and then advancing westwards are main objectives. As the "chickens neck" (north of Aleppo artillery college) will become safe and artillery support will be guaranteed in future.
View attachment 333097


1. Taking 1070 apartments project (Al-Nasr) will cause lots of causalities so its best that SF or LCB type forces take it. This is the starting point.

Regular infantry simultaneously starts attacking Aqrab and Rashidin to stop rebels from reinforcing Al-Nasr and in future to secure this location by capturing it to stop rebel attacks in north-east towards city(Assad Military Academy) as well as south east direction towards Aleppo Artillery College.

View attachment 333098




Its best to use T-72 and BMP-2 in open ground for manoeuvring and clear Line-of-sight but flanks protected by infantry to keep safe from ATGM ambushes.

Tanks attack enemy Air Defence Battalion (not shown in this photo but arrow points towards it)
Infantry attacks Khan Tuman Storage Base.
Mechanised infantry goes North on right side of "Tank attack" arrow.

View attachment 333099

Mechanised infantry dismounts BMP and attacks enemy Missile battalion.
Tanks capture Air Defense Battalion area
(3) Infantry deploys to secure this location and south western side of Aleppo Artillery College is secured.

View attachment 333100



(4)Rashidin Al-Khamisah is a strategic point fromw here enemy can launch attacks on Aleppo Artillery College so capturing this location is must.

SF takes the 1070 apartment project (Al-Nasr) and advances forward.
Regular Infantry leaves entrenched position and attacks
Mechanised infantry dismounts BMP and attacks from foot while BMP provides firepower.

Once this point is captured,Aleppo Artillery College can be considered safe and further attacks can be launched westwards by Syria..
View attachment 333101

There will be mistakes and corrections so feel free to point out. Im sure military professionals can make a million times better plan than this.

@Baloch Pakistani next time, please discuss Pakistan-India scenarios.

Highly appreciate your detailed reply. One thing which was clear in this battle was that the airforce alone no matter how hard they hit cannot determine the outcome of a battle. And the thing which made a difference was the will to fight and will to accept a number of causalities can determine the outcome of a battle even while having a weaker force. Rebels were willing to accept huge causalities and army was not, so rebels captured building after building from SAA. But later SAA retook almost all the areas from rebels bcz rebels were trapped in a small corridor. Yesterday Al Nusra n friends accepted that they lost 1500 men (not 1000) and 40 commanders in this battle, So it proved that their plan was too ambitious.

As suggested, next time i will build up a scenario for indo pak war, let me brainstorm a scenario and i'll be back. lol. Thanks to you guys for sparing some time to answer my questions.

Oh, one thing that i forgot to mention that ATGM's have destroyed 2 mi28 attack helis, 1 mi17 and 1 small heli within 3 months, and bcz of that russia has stopped using attack helis in syria altogether. So ATGM can be used as a AHGM (Anti Helicoptor Guided Missile) too. Most versatile and damn hell of a weapon imo.

 

[Inception-06]

Sending infantry ahead to ' identify' ATGMs will never work nor is recommended. The ATGMs are mobile too and would never expose themselves by engaging foot soldiers.

I Cant agree with this part but the rest, why ATGMs should be not found ? Can they remain static 24 hours ?

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

I Cant agree with this part but the rest, why ATGMs should be not found ? Can they remain static 24 hours ?

They are pretty hard to detect. Mostly they are used for sneak and peak attacks. What i've observed that tactics matter alot for atgm team, syrian army used it as fixed defensive weapon so their atgm teams were exposed all the time and rebels neutralized them swiftly with an atgm attack. Rebels used it as only sneak n peak type of weapon so it was very very difficult for the army to destroy them. I'm hopeful that our army would be following this war and must be learning tactics and strategies from that war. Rebels mastered this weapon.

 

[third eye]

I Cant agree with this part but the rest, why ATGMs should be not found ? Can they remain static 24 hours ?

Suggest you take inputs from a Pak source on this. I cannot discuss basic tactics here.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I Cant agree with this part but the rest, why ATGMs should be not found ? Can they remain static 24 hours ?

First of all man portable ATGM teams are not used in an offensive but rare exceptions can happen where such teams are used to help infantry take out bunkers or defending tank positions, such teams will always be waiting in defensive areas along with other troops. In doing an Attack you will spearhead with tanks cum infantry and the defensive forces will be waiting with their man portable ATGM teams & vehicle mounted ones. Thus offensive forces cannot just sent in their infantry to seek out ATGM teams.

You have and need vehicles to carry ATGM teams like we have jeep mounted ATGM teams and APCs equipped ATGM systems which can be used in an offensive manner and can become easy targets for the defending forces also.

 

[X-2.]

That's sad that now these machines will be terrorized by ATGM teams in the battlefield. Russian anti atgm Shtora system totally failed in syria bcz it has to be pointed in the direction of incoming atgm, and it overheats with in 15 minutes of use.

Lower times to target, between missiles launches, changing weapons groups, etc. aren't hard buffs like damage, penetration, or rate of fire, they're mechanic / ease of use improvements and in the greater context of prevailing ERA, APS, high-agility & armor tanks, unnecessary ADDED counter play against ATGM's.

 

[cerberus]

Considering Also the Fact India Will Also Use Sensor fuzed Weapons Such As CBU-105 Against Enemy Armour columns

 

[Inception-06]

Suggest you take inputs from a Pak source on this. I cannot discuss basic tactics here.

You should never have post in this topic if you cant discuss anything here !

Did you ever read or get the military training of reconnaissance ? May be you need to read about the Basics of:

INTELLIGENCE, SURVEILLANCE, AND RECONNAISSANCE OPERATIONS

CHAPTER 4

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-90-2/chap4.htm

ATGMs is a target like a Mortar Battery or a machine Gun nest, so it is not more difficult to locate than any other targets by a reconnaissance mission, for a proffessional trained Army, with the right war tools and trained Team also this mission can be done.

I will not Reply to any indian in this topic, because I have expected such posts,there is no more room for discussion, I will not waste my time.

 

[Mrc]

How about ground survellance radar to locate mobile anti tank teams??

 

[Inception-06]

Considering Also the Fact India Will Also Use Sensor fuzed Weapons Such As CBU-105 Against Enemy Armour columns

OK considering also the fact that we can fire back !

 

[cerberus]

OK considering also the fact that we can fire back !

View attachment 333191

How It Is Relevant Its Tactical missile Which Used Less in Conventional Armour war Though Its Only deployed in limited Numbers And its Impossible To Attack Moving Targets With Strategic Missile How do you Locate there Exact Movement

We have Similar or even Superior Tactical Toys than this

We Talking Here Conventional Armour Battles Not Nuclear So Discuss on that

CBU-105 is conventional Weapon Its can used by CAS Aircrafts Many USAF It can Annihilate Divisions of Tank columns And Armoured Vehicles in Seconds

 

[Inception-06]

First of all man portable ATGM teams are not used in an offensive but rare exceptions can happen where such teams are used to help infantry take out bunkers or defending tank positions, such teams will always be waiting in defensive areas along with other troops. In doing an Attack you will spearhead with tanks cum infantry and the defensive forces will be waiting with their man portable ATGM teams & vehicle mounted ones. Thus offensive forces cannot just sent in their infantry to seek out ATGM teams.

You have and need vehicles to carry ATGM teams like we have jeep mounted ATGM teams and APCs equipped ATGM systems which can be used in an offensive manner and can become easy targets for the defending forces also.

My point was never that simple Infantry will run and search for ATGMs,I was replying and referring to the statements "its not possible to finde and locate ATGMs, because they are hidden", here I cant agree. With the use of reconnaissance this task can be also done.

How It Is Relevant Its Tactical missile Which Used Less in Armour war Though Its Only deployed in limited Numbers
We have Similar or even Superior Tactical Toys than this

We Talking Here Conventional Armour Battles Not Nuclear So Discuss on that

CBU-105 is conventional Weapon Its can used by CAS Aircrafts It can Annihilate Divisions of Tank columns And Armoured Vehicles

I dont know where you get the Idea or in which relation to post indian weapons in this topic, when this topic describes itself as "Pakistan Army's 6th Armor Division". So to which post yours was referring, how it become relevant to post indian CBU weapons in this topic ?

 

[Areesh]

I dont know where you get the Idea or in which relation to post indian weapons in this topic, when this topic describes itself as "Pakistan Army's 6th Armor Division". So to which post yours was referring, how it become relevant to post indian CBU weapons in this topic ?

He is a troll. What else do you expect from these bharati trolls?

The discussion was going good until bharati trolls brought it down to their low level.

 

[Inception-06]

He is a troll. What else do you expect from these bharati trolls?

The discussion was going good until bharati trolls brought it down to their low level.

Exactly ! I hope the other members will continuo to post, it was amazing to read in this topic .