Pakistan Army takes notice of Propaganda Campaign to Defame armed forces: ISPR

[R Wing]

It should not be news to anyone that the army feels what is going on in the street. Also note that this was not a Corps Commanders Conf. This was a Formation Commanders Conf. which means all ranks at Maj Gen and higher were there. In essence this was a sounding board for the CoAS to hear from a much larger body of officers what he/army should do.

So before people start attacking everything or anything pertaining to the army, this forum probably has given the CoAS his first real set of feedback from his own constituency.

My take is that army, traditionally, has been very sensitive to the street. If the army is being perceived negatively, hopefully this will lead to changes at top because usually people at the top have avoided dragging the rest of the institution down with themselves. I would think this calculus is playing out in the mind of the CoAS.

Blain Sb, the dangerous tendency here is not about amount of sensitivity to the street. We can all agree that they are very sensitive about that, since it legitimates their power monopoly (which, by all modern/comparative definitions is exceptional, unaccountable, and deep state-esque). Unless you include banana republics or mil dictatorships, in which case it's about right.

The real danger is how this sensitivity is perceived. They tend to become reflexively defensive rather than sympathetic to the emotional outpouring. This means that genuine criticism that they should take into account instead becomes weaponized propaganda that they must crush.

The difference in understanding (above) is subtle, but the outcome is world's apart.

Given the arrests, night raids, etc., and their history, it is pretty clear which option they will choose --- and therein lies the problem.

How any formation or Corps Commander Conf (or what have you) can take a guy who is sitting there on an extension, and has now become so controversial for the right reasons, is simply beyond me. But, of course, you will go back to the circular logic of command chain, which apparently leaves no room for moral courage, resigning, or fixing the system (since all you have are 'yes men.')

 

[Rank]

My take is that army, traditionally, has been very sensitive to the street. If the army is being perceived negatively, hopefully this will lead to changes at top because usually people at the top have avoided dragging the rest of the institution down with themselves. I would think this calculus is playing out in the mind of the CoAS.

Pakistanis have shown ultimate neg- against the regime change even without any leader on the next day night. That was beyond expectation. Just imagine, there was NO PTI leader heading any of such crowd.. Now IK start an anti-regime change campaign from Peshawar and Karachi. that will literally put extra ordinary pressure on the GHQ. You can't control slogans... I repeat you can't control slogans... even with media management (blackout), you can't control social media and international coverage. That will seriously damage Bajwa and co if there the crowd starts chanting anti slogans...

 

[Enigma SIG]

It should not be news to anyone that the army feels what is going on in the street. Also note that this was not a Corps Commanders Conf. This was a Formation Commanders Conf. which means all ranks at Maj Gen and higher were there. In essence this was a sounding board for the CoAS to hear from a much larger body of officers what he/army should do.

So before people start attacking everything or anything pertaining to the army, this forum probably has given the CoAS his first real set of feedback from his own constituency.

My take is that army, traditionally, has been very sensitive to the street. If the army is being perceived negatively, hopefully this will lead to changes at top because usually people at the top have avoided dragging the rest of the institution down with themselves. I would think this calculus is playing out in the mind of the CoAS.

Post 1971 war was the only other time when there was hard talking with the Chief and some of his PSOs by junior officers. I suspect some of the same has gone on here. The official statement is neither here or there.

We're dealing with an infestation. Anything short of burning it down is an exercise in futility. No matter the excuses given for "favorable outcomes".

 

[R Wing]

Lasagna time when brigadier Ali raised questions in a meeting chaired by kayani he was put into jail for 5 years

But @blain2 will never admit to these gross injustices. We must all be understanding, you see, because the Army has its own system.

 

[baqai]

Right now the atmosphere seems to be that you are TRAITOR if you are not pro PTI or dare to have an alternate view. Previously only political opponents were subject to this but now Army, Courts and Establishment is also being targeted.

Neutral view tu waisay bhi nahin rakh saktay because it's already declared as being janwar, so it's just like what Uncle Sam said after 9/11 "Either you are with us or against us"

Oh the irony!

 

[SoulSpokesman]

A little bit of criticism of the Pak Army is fine. But there needs to be a balance. Too much criticism isnt good, especially since with all its shortcomings Pak Fauj is still the most coherent institution in Pak.

Regards

 

[R Wing]

When the one hope a certain demographic had for change is ripped away from them to install a corrupt, puppet regime, then perhaps the answer is to burn it all down.

The Army leadership is not neutral, that much is evident, and even if it was, it chose a piss poor time (likely by intent) to demonstrate said neutrality and therefore it cannot escape responsibility for the events that ensued from said neutrality.

The Establishment nurtured a system where it was the main 'hand of stability', choosing to destabilize the system when it felt the need to in order to obtain preferred outcomes. As such, if the goal indeed was 'genuine neutrality', the time to demonstrate that was close to the elections with reforms in place to minimize election rigging and voter fraud. What has happened is that the system hasn't just lost equilibrium, it has skewed completely in favor of corruption, greed and those who have no qualms about abusing their power to obtain and retain power.

There is no neutrality when the only options that were left for the PTI were to join the PDM's band wagon of heavy handed repression, corruption, vote rigging and bribery to retain power. They knew Imran Khan would never follow that approach (he even refused to intervene in support of his close friends Jehangir Tareen and Aleem Khan).

So, again, the claim from the Army leadership of 'neutrality' is a complete and utter farce. They knew what would happen when they destroyed the equilibrium the system had and who would take advantage of it.

Both possible positions of the army are indefensible: being part of the PDM conspiracy, as seems increasingly plausible, or neutrality, which seems absurd when you KNOW (as the ISI KNOWS) how corrupt, vile, and treasonous the PDM politicians are.

There is no "win" scenario for the Army here.

 

[Bilal.]

They didn’t post on tweeter. But look at their post on YouTube and read the comment. Sazishhhhhh!!!

Don’t stand against the tide of time.

 

[R Wing]

A little bit of criticism of the Pak Army is fine. But there needs to be a balance. Too much criticism isnt good, especially since with all its shortcomings Pak Fauj is still the most coherent institution in Pak.

Regards

The criticism is solely around its powers as a deep state, since (unlike India, Israel, Turkey, Iran, China, the UK, the US, etc etc etc etc) it also runs the main intelligence agency of the country. No smart / modern state allows this.

This gives it largely unaccountable powers and little oversight to do whatever it wants, which typically includes political activities far beyond its defense-related mandate.

You might be surprised to know that many of the army critics are actually some of the biggest supporters of your approach above --- we actually want the army to be exceptionally strong and competent, but constrained to and focused on its professional duties only.

 

[Crimson Blue]

ISPR was quite ok with Maryam's goons chanting anti Army slogans.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513906371133153298

 

[Asimzranger]

Right now the atmosphere seems to be that you are TRAITOR if you are not pro PTI or dare to have an alternate view. Previously only political opponents were subject to this but now Army, Courts and Establishment is also being targeted.

Neutral view tu waisay bhi nahin rakh saktay because it's already declared as being janwar, so it's just like what Uncle Sam said after 9/11 "Either you are with us or against us"

Oh the irony!

Bro you need to look 4 months back on this fourm and general public was against imran khan but the way he is being taken outs ,with bringing in courrpt gov to power because of usa . Made people question and have send their protest to all even establishment.

 

[R Wing]

Every one is accountable and PA is like any other service in the country and they get paid what ever they do. For too long we have put them on the pedestal and didn't asked the questions which have lead to the break up of the country once, even i do accept politicians had their share of hand in that too. Now whatever is left of the original Pakistan, again we are facing the sovereignty of the country thanks to the same guilty parties again. If we had confronted them at that time they would not have dared to do it again. Some one is selling your mother and you are telling me its a 5th generation war? They have done the deal, set the price and would have got the reward by now by their services.
They don't tell us that they are taking the notice and try to pull the fast one, in fact they are on the notice and we as a nation want the situation reversed and election called. Imran is not Pakistan and what ever good or bad he has done he is accountable to the country but what these generals have done need to be sacked and court marshalled. How many years Imran is going to live as he is already in 70's but what they have done our future generations are going to pay for it. You don't live in our county and work for the yanks/Indians and betray your own country as that's called treason.

THANK YOU

Why is the Army a holy cow? I just don't get it.

 

[baqai]

Bro you need to look 4 months back on this fourm and general public was against imran khan but the way he is being taken outs ,with bringing in courrpt gov to power because of usa . Made people question and have send their protest to all even establishment.

i am sorry but he lost because of his decision making not because there was a conspiracy against him, it was a number game, he played his cards and opposition played theirs and he lost. He should seriously consider the kind of advisors he has around him and should learn from his mistakes.

 

[Enigma SIG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513922416946425863

 

[Jango]

The general opinion is more against Shahbaz Sharif and not the Army, that is the root of the issue.

Granted, there definitely are hostile elements which are taking advantage of this as well, but everyone needs to understand you do not get a multi-million retweet hashstag by sponsoring tweets in Pakistan, it just doesn't happen that way.

This is interesting that a large body of officers took note of this issue. The reason people think there is a deal or Army is complicit is because of backdoor meetings with Shahbaz and Zubair, suspicious behaviors of a multitude of institutions, and the public statements of politicians like Shahid Khaqan. They just add fuel to the fire.

I believe if this goes on, the ISPR/Army will either come out in public and say themselves that they investigated the letter and there was nothing implying foreign involvement, or there will be some serious discussions going within on how to defuse the situation, and that would be a change at the top.

Let's see how the future unfolds.

The Pakistan Army takes its strength from the general public, and that is where it's strength lies. Any erosion in that is detrimental, and the high command would have taken notice of that.