Pakistan and Israel’s Secret Diplomacy

[BHarwana]

Well I disagree and we will keep it there. Please dont state that Isreal is a terrorist; all states are born that way including mine here. All struggles from freedom start with that and people will label them as such. Good luck; arabs tried and they were nutured. Isreal is a fait accomplie. Please dont start who is and who is not a terrorist - we can show much much each state sponsors their proxies.

As far as Iran/Arabs ... i cannot comment - it is their owner personal vendetta from hundreds of years back and none of us can say much.

The issue is not terrorist we don't recognize Israel as a state. We just consider it a state and no politician in Pakistan will ever do that it will be a political suicide for him so there never will be recognition from Pakistan because in one state solution under democracy with Palestinian population the new state will be Palestine not Israel. Under two state solution Israel is making settlements and going above 1967 agreement so in the end it will be war for property rights. Islam has said a Muslim has an obligation to act and speak against cruelty. Israel's greed will cause it's destruction no one else.

 

[Orakzai]

Israel was fed the wrong fear of Islamic bomb. it is time Israel should take some steps to free herself of this tailored fear.

Marray we are fed "hate Israel" too.

Ah and the love for Israel sheds again but let me make it simple. More educated than most of the people here and more liberal minded then the most commenting here and just one thing to tell. Neither Kashmir is for sale to India nor Palestine is for sale to Israel. If you want Kashmir or Palestine it will be over my dead body don't know about the rest but this Zameer is not for sale

Mate, trust me most of Palestinians don't even give shit if Pakistan recognises Israel or not. Infect most of them don't even like Pakistanis. Go and interact with few it will bring you back to senses.

 

[IceCold]

Ah and the love for Israel sheds again but let me make it simple. More educated than most of the people here and more liberal minded then the most commenting here and just one thing to tell. Neither Kashmir is for sale to India nor Palestine is for sale to Israel. If you want Kashmir or Palestine it will be over my dead body don't know about the rest but this Zameer is not for sale

So than why do we recognise India than? I mean we dont recognise Israel because of the Palestinian state but on the other hand we recognise India despite Kashmir, and not to forget that its India we fought 4 wars with, one directly resulting in loosing our eastern wing. Moreover it is India that sponsors terrorism in Pakistan. Yet despite that we continue to not just have diplomatic relations with a country who has a butcher as their leader but also spare no moment in appeasement policy towards India. Yet somehow our Zameer pops up every now and than when someone talks about just recognising the Jewish state and nothing more. Israel is not going anywhere and the sooner we realise this reality the better. I am not saying to get in bed with the Jewish state but that is also no reason to not accept them as a reality when they are.

 

[BHarwana]

So than why do we recognise India than? I mean we dont recognise Israel because of the Palestinian state but on the other hand we recognise India despite Kashmir, and not to forget that its India we fought 4 wars with, one directly resulting in loosing our eastern wing. Moreover it is India that sponsors terrorism in Pakistan. Yet despite that we continue to not just have diplomatic relations with a country who has a butcher as their leader but also spare no moment in appeasement policy towards India. Yet somehow our Zameer pops up every now and than when someone talks about just recognizing the Jewish state and nothing more. Israel is not going anywhere and the sooner we realise this reality the better. I am not saying to get in bed with the Jewish state but that is also no reason to not accept them as a reality when they are.

The point of not recognizing is the territory in case of Israel it is the entire country. In case of Kashmir it is the state of Kashmir and Junahghar and Pakistan has not recognized those places that means we will fight for those places.

 

[IceCold]

Worse than "sad." It is a big mistake: every moment spent twisting reality to meet the political demand to demonize Israel drives Pakistanis further away from sanity and thus effectively addressing its internal issues.

Jews have seen this condition before, especially in our enemies. When truth doesn't matter civic accountability of authorities disappears in favor of their self-interest, justice reduces to a matter of who holds the weapons, and therefore citizens divide into smaller groups, seeing other groups and the state as enemies. The outcome is a violent internal catharsis that tears society apart.

Pakistan has already seen this happen on a national scale twice. Sadly, its leaders persist in thinking the answer is more and more compulsion. But General Sahabzada Yaqub-Khan knew better: he resigned his commission rather than use force against his eastern brethren, saying that a political solution was required. He continued to serve Pakistan's government after the 1971 debacle but never returned to its army. Sadly, none of the Pakistani leaders of today, military or civilian, seem to be of the same caliber.

Having state policy held hostage by a bunch of mullahs is just pathetic if you ask me. Mullahs have been nothing more than a cruse to Pakistani society and Pakistan as a state. Their brand of Islam is whats sending Pakistan backwards.They need to be dealt with an iron hand or sunk in the Arabian sea. While most of the Arab nations are in bed with Israel including SA (despite not acknowledging it openly) the hypocrisy on our part is astounding.

 

[AMG_12]

So than why do we recognise India than? I mean we dont recognise Israel because of the Palestinian state but on the other hand we recognise India despite Kashmir, and not to forget that its India we fought 4 wars with, one directly resulting in loosing our eastern wing. Moreover it is India that sponsors terrorism in Pakistan. Yet despite that we continue to not just have diplomatic relations with a country who has a butcher as their leader but also spare no moment in appeasement policy towards India. Yet somehow our Zameer pops up every now and than when someone talks about just recognising the Jewish state and nothing more. Israel is not going anywhere and the sooner we realise this reality the better. I am not saying to get in bed with the Jewish state but that is also no reason to not accept them as a reality when they are.

The absolute İrony !! We accept India as a state, have diplomatic ties and all despite the occupation and atrocities in Kashmir. IMO, the Palestinian issue can be resolved diplomatically. What are we doing rightnow to help Palestinians? Zilch.

 

[IceCold]

The point of not recognizing is the territory in case of Israel it is the entire country. In case of Kashmir it is the state of Kashmir and Junahghar and Pakistan has not recognized those places that means we will fight for those places.

Whether its a piece of territory or so called entire country, we accept one with whom we have direct quarrels, we even talk about trade and cultural exchange, sporting events and you name it despite everything that country does in Kashmir, fires on our borders regularly, talks about blocking our waters, sponsors and abetting terrorism, tries its best to isolate us in international community. If any country we shouldn't be having relations with is India.
By the way do you know who kept the F-16s flying during the 90s sanctions? The name starts with I and its not India. Maybe it will help in taking off the bigotry blinds we have put on our eyes.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Look accepting Isreal is fine there is no issue. Only two states were built on foundation or basis of religion - Pakistan and Isreal.

No one cares of Palestine - while I disgree whole heartedly with the draconian nazi apartheid policies of Bibi and lunatic right fringe backed by evangelists (whose motivation is to speed up the coming of the messiah); regretfully PLO or Hamas has shown any capabilities of moving anywhere except for internal strife while the populus at large rot. Dont expect any US administration to say anything either when none of the Arab states have balls (... they were castrated in prior wars!).

With regards to Kashmir, proposal put by Mr Musharaf was credible but hawks on both sides did not want to see it done - it still remains a viable pre-position - there India has fallen to a baffoon/right wing leadership while Mr Sharif has no spine except to amass personal wealth like our dear leader here at home.

Please dont put always Kashmir/Palestine as a crying tears when there are millions of moslems facing genocide either in Burma, Darfur to name a few - when are their voices going to be heard?

Just reflecting my thoughts.

Most of the Pakistanis are not really aware of what are the realpolitik of that region and what are the ground realities there.

Our issue, to be very precise, concise and to the point, the red line that no one should cross, is this:

The Al Aqsa mosque.

After Mecca and Madina, this is the third holiest place for us. (The one on left). In early times, Muslims including Prophet (PBUH) himself used to pray in the direction toward this Mosque. Our holy book Quran has specifically mentioned this Mosque and area around it as blessed.

This is NOT Palestinian issue, its a Muslim faith issue. For the bold part in your post, that is the crux of the problem. We can ignore the Palestinian sufferings and all, and turn a blind eye, but when you have absolute lunatics ruling over Israel, whose mission is to expedite the return of Messiah, which means only one thing. Not sure if you aware of the ideology and concept in Zionism, but their Messiah cannot return unlit the Temple of Solomon is rebuild. And I am not sure if you are aware, according to Zionists, the Mosque was build over the remains of the temple. So if they have to rebuild it, the Mosque must be demolished. That is my friend, in all probability will trigger the Armageddon, kidding you not.

This is what keep people in Pakistan edgy about Israel and its intentions. So the real problem lies within Israel. Unless these lunatics in Israel are not neutralized, really cannot see Pakistan recognizing Israel.

 

[IceCold]

Most of the Pakistanis are not really aware of what are the realpolitik of that region and what are the ground realities there.

Our issue, to be very precise, concise and to the point, the red line that no one should cross, is this:

View attachment 375940


The Al Aqsa mosque.

After Mecca and Madina, this is the third holiest place for us. (The one on left). In early times, Muslims including Prophet (PBUH) himself used to pray in the direction toward this Mosque. Our holy book Quran has specifically mentioned this Mosque and area around it as blessed.

This is NOT Palestinian issue, its a Muslim faith issue. For the bold part in your post, that is the crux of the problem. We can ignore the Palestinian sufferings and all, and turn a blind eye, but when you have absolute lunatics ruling over Israel, whose mission is to expedite the return of Messiah, which means only one thing. Not sure if you aware of the ideology and concept in Zionism, but their Messiah cannot return unlit the Temple of Solomon is rebuild. And I am not sure if you are aware, according to Zionists, the Mosque was build over the remains of the temple. So if they have to rebuild it, the Mosque must be demolished. That is my friend, in all probability will trigger the Armageddon, kidding you not.

This is what keep people in Pakistan edgy about Israel and its intentions. So the real problem lies within Israel. Unless these lunatics in Israel are not neutralist, really cannot see Pakistan recognizing Israel.

This is all fine, i understand and does not disagree but pray tell me how does not accepting Israel solves the above problem? If anything we can do is to accept them and than perhaps raise this issue when there are bilateral meeting. Do you think Israel cares Pakistans take on the matter at the moment? No they dont. By not accepting Israel, we are not really delivering any solution but rather becoming part of the problem.

 

[FlyingAce]

This is nothing new, Backdoor Channels are always open between States, Be it Israel has Occupied Territory that they claim is their's which isn't and that's a fact, & Pakistan has always supported the Palestine Cause & more over 3rd Most important Site For Muslims after Mecca & Madinah is in Jerusalem, Its more of Religious Importance & part Palestine issue...
But when it comes to Intelligence Sharing, When Needed & If deemed Important, Contacts are made between Foreign Ministers, Ambassadors in UN & Even ISI & Mossad has backdoor channels open on need to be basis...
I'm not surprised at all..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

This is all fine, i understand and does not disagree but pray tell me how does not accepting Israel solves the above problem? If anything we can do is to accept them and than perhaps raise this issue when there are bilateral meeting. Do you think Israel cares Pakistans take on the matter at the moment? No they dont. By not accepting Israel, we are not really delivering any solution but rather becoming part of the problem.

By recognizing them, you are giving legitimacy to these lunatics by that I mean the lunatics who are in power there and have always been there. By not recognizing them, there will always be "what if" fear of crossing the red line.

Its part of their faith, can you reason with them?

The guy on the left is their current prime minister.

We in Pakistan have never allowed the lunatics to reach our power corridors, on the other side, theirs is filled with such characters.

Unless they themselves clean this mess, bring reasonable people to the power, its pointless to recognize them.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

Many people will agree the issue of Palestinians MUSLIMS can be solved through diplomatic channels. Relationship(Diplomatic) is not bad they are not losing anything but if we look at the facts they have fought against Arabs and are still surviving. They must be doing something right.
Well Mullahs haven,t brought anything great to this society other than hatred and despair. We as a nation can totally benefit from these ties. But unfortunately no one will take a step forward because of JI JUI and other religious parties.
I for one want to go there and visit masid-e-aqsa.

 

[IceCold]

Its part of their faith, can you reason with them?

Exactly! so how do you think you can reason with them by not accepting them? Red lines or no red lines, there are certain thresholds that they do not want to cross but than again you can only tell each other about the so called red lines once you talk to them or have some sort of working relationship.

 

[denel]

Most of the Pakistanis are not really aware of what are the realpolitik of that region and what are the ground realities there.

Our issue, to be very precise, concise and to the point, the red line that no one should cross, is this:

View attachment 375940


The Al Aqsa mosque.

After Mecca and Madina, this is the third holiest place for us. (The one on left). In early times, Muslims including Prophet (PBUH) himself used to pray in the direction toward this Mosque. Our holy book Quran has specifically mentioned this Mosque and area around it as blessed.

This is NOT Palestinian issue, its a Muslim faith issue. For the bold part in your post, that is the crux of the problem. We can ignore the Palestinian sufferings and all, and turn a blind eye, but when you have absolute lunatics ruling over Israel, whose mission is to expedite the return of Messiah, which means only one thing. Not sure if you aware of the ideology and concept in Zionism, but their Messiah cannot return unlit the Temple of Solomon is rebuild. And I am not sure if you are aware, according to Zionists, the Mosque was build over the remains of the temple. So if they have to rebuild it, the Mosque must be demolished. That is my friend, in all probability will trigger the Armageddon, kidding you not.

This is what keep people in Pakistan edgy about Israel and its intentions. So the real problem lies within Israel. Unless these lunatics in Israel are not neutralized, really cannot see Pakistan recognizing Israel.

Look a majority of non-lunatics in Isreal dont support the occupation or Jerusalem as its capital; there is a fringe group pushing this agenda. To be fair, if you consider there is nothing anyone can do if they decided ever to take over Jerusalem - the very aspect they did not should tell you the policy.

The issue is not terrorist we don't recognize Israel as a state. We just consider it a state and no politician in Pakistan will ever do that it will be a political suicide for him so there never will be recognition from Pakistan because in one state solution under democracy with Palestinian population the new state will be Palestine not Israel. Under two state solution Israel is making settlements and going above 1967 agreement so in the end it will be war for property rights. Islam has said a Muslim has an obligation to act and speak against cruelty. Israel's greed will cause it's destruction no one else.

Friend, palestinians dont care about Pakistan. You are carrying their banner when entire arab brethen are quiet and have have established relation. There is no political suicide.

Regretfully it is the bed your politicians laid out to curry favours from GCC/Arabs in the 60s/70s. When all other countries can establish relations with Isreal and continue to work with these arabs e.g. India etc what is your issue? There is noone who will pin you a medal. It is always best to look within your vicinity and resolve your own issues vs taking up pet causes when there are much larger issues to deal with the Taliban and others right on your doorsteps e.g. poverty, hunger, education, health.

 

[Jackdaws]

India has a small Jewish community. Does Pakistan have one too? You hear of other minorities in Pakistan but never of Jews.