Pakistan and Israel

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Islam is opposed to Zionism?

Let me clarify to you in simple terms about Zionism. It is a political movement to preserve the interests of a jewish state and people.

Islam has nothing to do with internal affairs of others unless its legitimacy is challenged or muslims are threatened. Pardon my ignornance if I am wrong here.


As per my limited knowledge, every Quranic verse has a purpose and some specific background to which it can be related or is related.

Remember that Holy Quran was not revealed to our beloved Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) by Allah Almighty as a single entity. Holy Quran was revealed in the form of 'several components', and some components provided solutions to events that took place with passage of time in that blessed land.

Just citing a single verse can complicate things. This is what our enemies often do. Out of context usage of versus is not advisable.

The verse you cited is 100% valid in its meaning: If muslims are being forcibly removed from their homeland, than they have legitimate right to fight back for their homeland.

If palestinians are fighting to preserve their state, then they have have a legitimate right to resist expansionist movements of their enemies within their homeland. Their cause is absolutely justified.

However, the verse you cited does not tells anything about recognition of enemy or its state.

In our time, world is divided in to various states. Every state has existential legitimacy and should be recognized by all other states under existing geopolitical environment.

Muslims have also split themselves from each other under the existing geopolitical environment. An Islamic super-state or empire no longer exists.

However, all Islamic nations may carry a responsibility to help an Islamic nation that is suffering from enemy interventions.

In our case, we Pakistani do recognize palestinian cause.

However, do we have a problem with state of Israel? Israeli people are not forcing Pakistani people out of their homes.

Therefore, is it wrong for us to recognize the state of Israel?

If main reason is palestinian cause than how about kashmir dispute?

As per logic of your arguments, Israel and India are in the same boat and should be treated similarly.

Get the picture?

Bhai meray... There is no such thing as Palestinian State... or a Palestinian problem... The verse is not talking about Palestinians... It is talking in the most simple terms (as you put it yourself) that if MUSLIMS are being thrown out of their land (like it is thruout the history of Israel, unless you have no idea of their history) then they have to respond and retake their land... This verse is not limited to Ghazwa e Badr rather it is universal... No one has the right to throw anyone out of their land and Muslims are told in no uncertain terms that they have to defend their land and reclaim it... In fact in the hadith it even says that if you let go of a handspan of Muslim land, then prepare for an equal amount in hell fire!!!

We may not have the political or military power to claim what belongs to us BUT to completely go against the most basic teaching of our creator and to give legitimacy to an act of theft is completely wrong... There is nothing Zid about this issue as another poster has written... The issue is totally clear... Israel was built by the colonialists to keep the Muslim world and particularly the Arab world in a state of decline... The reason why there is a push for the Zionist regime to be recognized by Pakistan is because Pakistan is increasingly coming in a leadership role for Muslims...

Zioinism is an ideology that is not different from Nazism... Replace the Nordic with the Jew and you have a perfect match... You should read up the blog of my friend Gilad Atzmon to understand the thinking of the Israelis... He has served in the Israeli military and was a soldier on duty when Israeli invaded Lebanon...

Furthermore, Islam has everything to do with internal affairs of others...

I have to ask this Legend but have you not come across verses in the Quran where Allah states that Islam has to be victorious over all other ideologies? Have you not read that the Prophet has mentioned that Islam shall dominate all the lands in the east and west? Have you not read about the daughter of Muhammad saw Syeda Fatima having said that Islam shall enter each and every house of the whole world? What are you making of your ideology man? This is not a joke but a serious matter... It has nt been long that the Israelis killed Muslims in a meaningless bloodshed back in 2009 and here you are talking about recognizing Israel as a legitimate state? What is your agenda? You want them to open an embassy in Islamabad and start buying the sell outs amongst us to do their dirty work inside our country? Do we not have plenty of problems already?

You guys have no idea what you are talking about I think... You should pay attention to what an ex President of the US has to say about these people... They are more vicious than snakes, they have nothing to fear now in the Muslim world except Pakistan... If you dont stop for a second and pay attention to what you are saying, you ll be playing in the hands of the enemy and going straight to the mouth of the monster... Unless of course you are working for them already... If that is the case, no amount of discussion will make me change your mind...

BBC NEWS | Americas | Truman diary blasts Jews

and what do you mean by recognition of "the enemy or the state?" What is your criterion of a legitimate state? This is being asked from you numerous times and I have not seen anything that you or the handful of Israeli supporters have dealt with in a proper manner...

Let me try one more time...

If you are thrown out of your home by a bunch of gangsters... will you give up your right to your home? or fight back to reclaim it? Will you transfer the ownership rights to those gangsters or do everything in your power to get it back?

Apply that to the state then... Like it or not Israel does exist.. the question is do we now give such a state legitimacy? By your law of the jungle then, there is only ownership of the powerful... Let the gangsters come and throw you out of your house!!!

Or how about letting India take away Karachi... Lahore... call it part of India... and we would recognize it as part of the Indian state then... and why are we causing so much trouble in Kashmir... Let the Indians have it...

Khuda Khuda karo meray bhai... Allah say daro... Allah nay insaan ko jungle kay kanoon par chalnay ko nahee kaha...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Oh and if there is a Qadiani element here... Sorry no further discussion on this then...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

This is how Israel operates by the way... I urge all readers to take caution!!!

Israel recruits citizen advocates in Europe | World news | The Guardian

 

[Rain]

Quraan - Aal-e-Imran, verse No. 148-149.
مومنو! اگر تم کافروں کا کہا مان لو گے تو وہ تم کو الٹے پاؤں پھیر کر (مرتد ک&#1585 دیں گے پھر تم بڑے خسارے میں پڑ جاؤ گے (۱۴۹&#65279 (یہ تمہارے مددگار نہیں ہی&#1722 بلکہ خدا تمہارا مددگار ہے اور وہ سب سے بہتر مددگار ہے

No my friend, we are better off without making friendship with Israel and expecting any assistance in our defense from them. God has stated in the book and there is no one wiser than God.

Dear This Ayat is in reference to war situattion when muslims were to face non muslims in war. Dont read without context.

Be the way Israel is not only KAFIR, Chinise Jap, US, Srilankans, thais, german, french, Bralian are all KAFIR why u have friendly relations with them?

Neem Mullah Khatra e Eman!

 

[500]

Pakistan's relation with Russia cannot be compared to Pakistan-Israel relation....Unlike Israel which a tiny puny country far far away...Russia is right next doors,and too big to be ignored by Pakistan.

For your info,in Pakistan on public level there were many protests against miss treatment of Chechnya by Russia.

So its matter of money and power, not matter of principles.

Cos chechens are not Arab people, speaking arabic language and imbibing arabic culture.

Then Pakistan is champion of Arab cause all over the world, not Islam. Problem is that when Arabs killed each other Pakistan did not care either: when Egypt killed 100K in Yemen, Saddam slaughtered tens of thousands of Shiites, Syria slaughtered in Hamma, Jordan slaughtered Palestinians etc...

This is a totally ludicrous discussion in my opinion...

The only way the Jews can remain peacefully in Palestine (and we certainly want this for the Jews) is under a Caliphate... Even an Israeli parliament member agrees with my opinion... Check out this Arab MK... SubhanAllah

Arab MK: Replace Israel with Islamic Caliphate - Politics & Gov't - Israel News - Israel National News

That only proves that Israel is a liberal democracy.

If you look up your ancestry..you may find that your ancestors used to live elsewhere centuries ago...Does that mean you have the right to go and claim that country?

If you look up at Palestinians you will see that Arafat was born in Egypt, and Iz ad din al Qassam was born in Syria.

 

[Rain]

Pakistan relation with Israel: Pakistan does not recognises Israel because of Arabs, Palestenians, or Muslims Cause but becuase Pakistan has deep friendly relations with Arab Countries( Their Head of States) due to those relations Pakistan does not recognise If KSA and some theres remaining Arab Countries accept Israel surely Pakistan will follow-in this regards Pakistan's hands are tied, Pakistan is not able to use those realtions to Her benefits

 

[500]

Pakistan relation with Israel: Pakistan does not recognises Israel because of Arabs, Palestenians, or Muslims Cause but becuase Pakistan has deep friendly relations with Arab Countries( Their Head of States) due to those relations Pakistan does not recognise If KSA and some theres remaining Arab Countries accept Israel surely Pakistan will follow-in this regards Pakistan's hands are tied, Pakistan is not able to use those realtions to Her benefits

Strange argument. Best friend of Israel is USA.
Best friend of KSA is USA.

 

[KS]

Hello Karthic

Nice to hear from u. Exactly it is the law of jungle which is imposed on the palestinians. When state of israel came to existence the palestinian land was occupied by the british along with their partners they made the resolution of israel and kicked millions of palestinians from their land. Who gave them this right? No sane person can equally blaim the paletinians and israelies

Regards

TARIQ

See then the Israelis can equally blame the Arabs for appropriating what was originally theirs before they reclaimed it after a millenium.

Palestinians have a right to state-hood --- but that is not by "Pushing Israel into the sea" --rather its through recognising Israel as a legitimate entity (not that it matters to Israel who will be there no matter what,but it is good for the Palestinians).

How long are the Palestinians going to be used by the Arabs,Persians and Turks for their own shallow benefits ?

Please dont bring in obtuse concepts like Ummah etc --- In today's world , everyone is to his own.

 

[r4rehan]

Why Pakistan did not cut diplomatic relationships with Russia, when it was leveling Chechnya then?

why you want that pakistan has to recognize you (isreal) ...

and about Russia we recognized them before chechnye issue
and we don't hate as much as isreal coz they are Jewish

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Dear This Ayat is in reference to war situattion when muslims were to face non muslims in war. Dont read without context.

Be the way Israel is not only KAFIR, Chinise Jap, US, Srilankans, thais, german, french, Bralian are all KAFIR why u have friendly relations with them?

Neem Mullah Khatra e Eman!

This is also in regard to accepting their ideology which we currently do so... So even though China is our friend, the Ayah is warning Muslims not to adopt their pseudo communism...

We currently adopt the Kuffar's system of Capitalism!!!

All these other countries were not created by displacing the local population of Muslims and using terrorism to make them leave their land... Is that something you are struggling to understand?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

So its matter of money and power, not matter of principles.


Then Pakistan is champion of Arab cause all over the world, not Islam. Problem is that when Arabs killed each other Pakistan did not care either: when Egypt killed 100K in Yemen, Saddam slaughtered tens of thousands of Shiites, Syria slaughtered in Hamma, Jordan slaughtered Palestinians etc...


That only proves that Israel is a liberal democracy.


If you look up at Palestinians you will see that Arafat was born in Egypt, and Iz ad din al Qassam was born in Syria.

Yes both to parents who were thrown out of their land by your grandparents...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

So its matter of money and power, not matter of principles.


Then Pakistan is champion of Arab cause all over the world, not Islam. Problem is that when Arabs killed each other Pakistan did not care either: when Egypt killed 100K in Yemen, Saddam slaughtered tens of thousands of Shiites, Syria slaughtered in Hamma, Jordan slaughtered Palestinians etc...


That only proves that Israel is a liberal democracy.


If you look up at Palestinians you will see that Arafat was born in Egypt, and Iz ad din al Qassam was born in Syria.

How convenient for you to say this... The poor guy has been getting death threats ever since in your "liberal democracy"... huh

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum,

i m amused just to prove ur point u take half of the sentence and not the whole sentence. Just like non muslims take half of the ayah and argue about it.
But u asked me the solutions which i gave more active work on international forums, Live coverage of seminars on misery of palestinians etc.

I suppose this answer dissoppointed u instead of me calling for jihad, help arms struggle but i gave the solutions wat the civilized world do so my argument is less then weak.

If we call for fighting and arm struggle we r takfeeries , extremists , do not know the international conditions and if we call for active diplomacy our arguments r weak ( what else is left just bow down).

TARIQ

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Obviously what you're saying is not true in actuality and its probably more to do with the Indian flag you're sporting there.

To be fair to Pakistan, we have on occasion tried to be friendly with Israel but the Israeli press was filled with venom against Pakistan. There are religious concerns and political alignments, but if Israel and Pakistan were not antagonistic at least it would fare off better in our religious and political disagreements as well.

Everything is inter-connected with the other.

well said sir, well said

 

[Bhim]

To mai samajhu ye rishta Pakka...