Pakistan Alouette III Replacement Options

[Ahmet Pasha]

Man you been reading too many Zarvan posts!!!

exactly we need, light weight helicopters, easily the requirement is 50-100 even by conservative estimates, Pakistan hsould get nothing less than complete licence production

we did that previously with mushaq and thunder, look at the result, unfortunately not much effort has been made in helicopter department

Thats totally fine as long as we can work out a mutual business thing without getting tangled up with this bird that would be nice.
But I could be missing something here, how do you think this helicopter fits the bill for PAA?

Pakistan has to entertain these sorts of things (e.g. Ansat, Sukhoi SuperJet airliner, etc) if it intends to access valuable Russian hardware, like the S-400. At the end of the day, the Russians want to help their economy.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Man you been reading too many Zarvan posts!!!


Thats totally fine as long as we can work out a mutual business thing without getting tangled up with this bird that would be nice.
But I could be missing something here, how do you think this helicopter fits the bill for PAA?

Maybe if the PAA (and PAF and PN) want a direct replacement to the Alouette III. But the emphasis of the Ansat is on civil services (e.g. air ambulance, police, search-and-rescue, etc). Ideally, Pakistan would have a program to design and develop its own lightweight helicopter, or at least engage in joint-production.

...anyways ... Russia is just showing off the Ansat in Pakistan. Don't read too much into it until Pakistan actually expresses interest in it or something like it.

 

[fatman17]

Maybe if the PAA (and PAF and PN) want a direct replacement to the Alouette III. But the emphasis of the Ansat is on civil services (e.g. air ambulance, police, search-and-rescue, etc). Ideally, Pakistan would have a program to design and develop its own lightweight helicopter, or at least engage in joint-production.

...anyways ... Russia is just showing off the Ansat in Pakistan. Don't read too much into it until Pakistan actually expresses interest in it or something like it.

Agree, they are satisfied with the performance of the Fennecs, however 9 Hueys have been sent back to the US so replacements are required for the FC and ANF and US is not going to sell Blackhawks or Bell helos to Pakistan, that's where the Ansat can come into play. Pakistan has a strong relationship with Kazan.

 

[fatman17]

Agree, they are satisfied with the performance of the Fennecs, however 9 Hueys have been sent back to the US so replacements are required for the FC and ANF and US is not going to sell Blackhawks or Bell helos to Pakistan, that's where the Ansat can come into play. Pakistan has a strong relationship with Kazan.

Or additional Fennecs

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Agree, they are satisfied with the performance of the Fennecs, however 9 Hueys have been sent back to the US so replacements are required for the FC and ANF and US is not going to sell Blackhawks or Bell helos to Pakistan, that's where the Ansat can come into play. Pakistan has a strong relationship with Kazan.

I think there's a fair chance of Pakistan requesting the Bell 412EP. The infrastructure is already in place and the US can justify the purchase on the grounds of COIN, CT, anti-narco, etc. The Bell 412EP would cost $12-15 m each, and the infrastructure for it (esp. PT6 turboshaft engine) is already in place.

 

[fatman17]

I think there's a fair chance of Pakistan requesting the Bell 412EP. The infrastructure is already in place and the US can justify the purchase on the grounds of COIN, CT, anti-narco, etc. The Bell 412EP would cost $12-15 m each, and the infrastructure for it (esp. PT6 turboshaft engine) is already in place.

big if .....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

big if .....

hmm ... ultimately, any PT6-equipped helicopter would do (to save on maintenance costs), e.g. Leonardo AW119, a very popular and low-cost platform. They can also go a little heavier and select the AW139 (more capable, can be bought in fewer numbers).

 

[fatman17]

hmm ... ultimately, any PT6-equipped helicopter would do (to save on maintenance costs), e.g. Leonardo AW119, a very popular and low-cost platform. They can also go a little heavier and select the AW139 (more capable, can be bought in fewer numbers).

Any french, Italian or Russian helo which meets our hot, hi, lo requirements would do and keeping the supply chain as lean as possible. depot level maintenance is a must.

 

[Shabi1]

Kazan Ansat on trials in Pakistan till end of November, could be a viable replacement for Aloutte IIIs. At $4m a piece it's probably one of the cheapest options.

https://propakistani.pk/2017/11/03/...ers-now-available-general-consumers-pakistan/

https://www.airrecognition.com/inde...nsat-multipurpose-helicopter-in-pakistan.html

"Russian Helicopters started testing multi-purpose Ansat helicopter in Pakistan. The objective of testing is to prove the ability to use the machine in high temperatures. At the moment the helicopter has already started test flights. It is planned to expand Ansat's temperature regime to +50° Celsius. Thus, its temperature range will be from -45° to +50° Celsius."

 

[khanasifm]

I think there's a fair chance of Pakistan requesting the Bell 412EP. The infrastructure is already in place and the US can justify the purchase on the grounds of COIN, CT, anti-narco, etc. The Bell 412EP would cost $12-15 m each, and the infrastructure for it (esp. PT6 turboshaft engine) is already in place.

Bell 41ep or epi are non military product which can be configured for various roles such as crew transport to oil rigs etc

But I agree in its class stick to it rather than another model , it has Canadian engine p&w

Paa has flown it over the years and may have more say in the matter but its 8000/9000 kg class vs a3 3000 /4000 kg class


http://www.bellhelicopter.com/commercial

 

[Gryphon]

@Path-Finder @niaz @Ahmet Pasha @khanasifm @Shabi1

Pakistan Army acquired 10x H125/AS350 B3 Ecureuil in the last decade. These are being used in Northern Areas for utility requirements.
AS350 B3 has also been used in successful SAR missions on the Nanga Parbat. The helicopter is meant to perform in 'hot and high' conditions.

According to MoDP Yearbooks 2014-15 and 2015-16, PA has ordered 13 more Ecureuil's.

Those are your Alouette III replacements.

The scout role will be performed by 18 H125M/AS550 C3 Fennec's.

 

[bananarepublic]

@Path-Finder @niaz @Ahmet Pasha @khanasifm @Shabi1

Pakistan Army acquired 10x H125/AS350 B3 Ecureuil in the last decade. These are being used in Northern Areas for utility requirements.
AS350 B3 has also been used in successful SAR missions on the Nanga Parbat. The helicopter is meant to perform in 'hot and high' conditions.

According to MoDP Yearbooks 2014-15 and 2015-16, PA has ordered 13 more Ecureuil's.

Those are your Alouette III replacements.

The scout role will be performed by 18 H125M/AS550 C3 Fennec's.

Aren't sone Alouette being used by the Navy ?? Is the Ecureuil gonna replace them too ??

 

[Signalian]

Here is the A3 still in service with all 3 branched of Pakistan military. What is the best option for Pakistan to replace this helicopter?
View attachment 432815View attachment 432816

1. AW159 Wildcat
View attachment 432819

Is used by the Royal Navy and Army air corps in the UK. It also carries a crew of 2 pilots and 5 passengers/soldiers like the A3. It also has the same 2x engines that are used on the T-129 ATAK so that makes good logistics.

2. Develop a Helicopter
India also has large fleet of A3 helicopters and to replace it they are building this Light utility helicopter.

Its a single engine helicopter designed specifically to replace the A3. Maybe Pakistan should develop a similar helicopter to replace its own A3 fleet.

3. Eurocopter EC635
View attachment 432825View attachment 432826
Also a light utility helicopter good for recon, surveillance combat support and transport up to 8 troops. Used by Iraqi army, Jordanian air force and Swiss air force.

AS 550 Fennec.

 

[Gryphon]

Aren't sone Alouette being used by the Navy ?? Is the Ecureuil gonna replace them too ??

So far, PAF & PN haven't ordered any helicopters to replace their respective Alouette III fleets.

AS 550 Fennec.

I guess you meant to write AS350 B3 Ecureuil.

It will make a good replacement of Army's Alouette III and Lama helicopters. Few of these are now serving Army Museum Lahore.

 

[Signalian]

So far, PAF & PN haven't ordered any helicopters to replace their respective Alouette III fleets.



I guess you meant to write AS350 B3 Ecureuil.

It will make a good replacement of Army's Alouette III and Lama helicopters, some of them are now serving Army Museum Lahore.

sorry, yes 350