Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Tank131]

Unfortunately the outcome would have been no different than what happened with the F-16 and soybean saga. Instead of the F-16s, it would have been the F-20s and soybean.

JF-17 program remains the most prudent thing to have happened for Pakistan Air Force. Hopefully the same focus and single-minded effort is being applied to what is to come next.

Frankly having the design and production rights including the turbofan and possibly the sparrow missile would have been far better in the long run for Pakistan's defense industry. Yes it would have meant no f-16, and that situation has for the most part remied itself, but in the 90s, unfettered ability to produce F-20s and with French and possibly chinese help, being able tobuild and upgrade new airframes would have put the defense industry far ahead of where it is at currently. Possibly where turkey is with the right management.

 

[blain2]

Frankly having the design and production rights including the turbofan and possibly the sparrow missile would have been far better in the long run for Pakistan's defense industry. Yes it would have meant no f-16, and that situation has for the most part remied itself, but in the 90s, unfettered ability to produce F-20s and with French and possibly chinese help, being able tobuild and upgrade new airframes would have put the defense industry far ahead of where it is at currently. Possibly where turkey is with the right management.

All it would have taken is the Pressler/Glen amendment to get Pakistan derailed. Our engagement is too transactional for something strategic like this to come to fruition.

 

[Tank131]

All it would have taken is the Pressler/Glen amendment to get Pakistan derailed. Our engagement is too transactional for something strategic like this to come to fruition.

From my understanding, the terms of the F-20 offer was that Pakistan would ostensibly take over the full production of the aircraft including the subsystems. Not sure how true it is, but if it was, Pressler would have had limited effect on this.

 

[Raider 21]

Group Capt Abbas Mirza of PAF after flying the first solo flight on F-20 Tigershark. During the 80s, three US jets were short-listed by the PAF, Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt, LTV A-7 Corsair-2, and the Northrop F-20 Tigershark to compliment the small F-16 Fleet.

The F-20 was a program that many in PAF wish had happened.

Abbas Mirza, callsign Mickey. Rumoured to be unbeatable in air combat and a very aggressive fighter pilot. They couldn't have picked a better pilot to evaluate the Tigershark.

From my understanding, the terms of the F-20 offer was that Pakistan would ostensibly take over the full production of the aircraft including the subsystems. Not sure how true it is, but if it was, Pressler would have had limited effect on this.

Yes. They were offered full production.

 

[Dreamer.]

From my understanding, the terms of the F-20 offer was that Pakistan would ostensibly take over the full production of the aircraft including the subsystems. Not sure how true it is, but if it was, Pressler would have had limited effect on this.

Wishful thinking that ignores realities.

Do you think Pakistan had the industrial capacity to become totally self sufficient and build everything for an aircraft including engines in a mere span of max 5-6 years? Without any prior experience? Pressler came into effect in 1990 remember. Impossible even with supposed "TOT". Do you know our track record with Agosta's? Alkhalid's? etc.etc.
And JF-17 too....though successful but look at the time lines.

 

[GriffinsRule]

The F-20 was a program that many in PAF wish had happened.

Abbas Mirza, callsign Mickey. Rumoured to be unbeatable in air combat and a very aggressive fighter pilot. They couldn't have picked a better pilot to evaluate the Tigershark.


Yes. They were offered full production.

In the end the aircraft did not meet the criteria PAF had put forth. Also, the aircraft in hindsight would have been a terrible choice. Even during sanctions, PAF could and did procure parts for its F-16s, albeit at much higher costs. And given how widely exported the jet is, we have been able to buy used ones to bolster our numbers.
No such option would have been available with the F-20.
The one thing where it MIGHT have helped is having a Super-7 like project come to fruition sooner and a trained workforce but who really knows, its all conjecture.

 

[Tank131]

Wishful thinking that ignores realities.

Do you think Pakistan had the industrial capacity to become totally self sufficient and build everything for an aircraft including engines in a mere span of max 5-6 years? Without any prior experience? Pressler came into effect in 1990 remember. Impossible even with supposed "TOT". Do you know our track record with Agosta's? Alkhalid's? etc.etc.
And JF-17 too....though successful but look at the time lines.

The big problem for the word ToT as it is understood here is that people here think all ToT means you can start printing out subs/aircraft ect. The reality is that often woth ToT you only get assembly (90Bs) or partial manufacturing rights (JF-17). ALkhalid was acquired with Full TOT but core components were outsourced like its engine from Ukraine. Those outsourcings can be rate limiting steps, especially when we talk about things like Pressler. From my understanding, engine, airframe and avionics assembly was to be set up in Pakistan for F-20 as it would have been the ONLY operator in the world. Had this been the case, then yes it would have been possible. Loom what iran has done keeping its variants of F-5 up. Having the background in turbofan manufacturing would have helped establish a manufacturing hub to perform R&D on new designs. Same for airframes and avionics.

 

[Dreamer.]

The big problem for the word ToT as it is understood here is that people here think all ToT means you can start printing out subs/aircraft ect.

Exactly my point actually, which is why I put TOT in inverted commas. No matter what level of "TOT" we got, Bottom line is that we were never going to get something that pressler etc. couldn't stop.
I truly doubt what was being offered meant that we could go on producing complex and major sub-systems like radars, engines etc. on our own even after sanctions. Wasn't going to happen...not that our industry even had the capability to absorb such "TOT" and become self-sufficient in all that in just 5 years.

Just take a look at rest of the world and how long it took for other countries to get somewhere (and how far was that?), even with help from likes of US.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

F-7PGs of Pakistan Air Force equipped with 2x AIM-9 Sidewinder, 2x Mark-82 Unguided bombs and 2x CBU-97 Cluster Munition.

 

[ghazi52]

Chinese aircrafts in PAF stock

 

[GriffinsRule]

Chinese aircrafts in PAF stock

Missed FT-5 and K-8

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

 

[Ali_Baba]

F-7PGs of Pakistan Air Force equipped with 2x AIM-9 Sidewinder, 2x Mark-82 Unguided bombs and 2x CBU-97 Cluster Munition.

That is a nice picture for sure - it is a shame we could never get these birds upgraded to be able to fire SD-10s using the Link-17 platform for targetting and guidance updates..

 

[ghazi52]

.,..
CCS Sqn formation circa 1990's Pakistan Air Force

• Shenyang F-6A
• Dassult Mirage VPA
• General Dynamics F-16A Block 15

 

[Bossman]

Chinese aircrafts in PAF stock

Add the K8, ZDK03, Y-12, H-5, FT5, FT7 and CH4