Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Ali_Baba]

China/Italy/UK won't capitulate to sharing source codes.

If the Grifo-E wins the Block 3 tender, then it means that the PAF has secured a non-Chinese BVRAAM and AShM suite through Leonardo and MBDA. It can also point to the PAF working with a trusted 3rd party like South Africa or Turkey on their respective BVRAAM (Merlin and Marlin, respectively), but that'd be a stretch seeing how the PAF will often go for something that's available today than play around with prototyping et. al.

Basically, the PAF might be dangling the Block-3 to Leonardo as a means to get Leonardo (and the Italian and UK governments) to sell the MBDA Meteor. If you're going to have a world of confidence in the Block-3, then perhaps arming it with a known quantity like the Meteor will force the enemy to respect it.

BTW an embargo wouldn't be a major factor in war. The PAF will stock enough AAMs and AShMs for a wartime response regardless of whether they're from the West or China.

I agree, having a block of JF17s with the Grifo-E (or other Lenardo radar) with Meteror, ASRAAM will bring the JF17 platform on par with the Rafale as far as the Air-to-Air role is concerned and will serve as a deterrent.

This is nothing to stop PAF ordering 50x Block III with Chinese avionics/AESA, and another 50x Block III with Western systems, making a final tally of 200 odd JF17s and then moving the focus to Azm project.

Sometimes the threat you understand is more serious than something that might or might not be as threatening.

I agree !!! Indians will understand the capability of the Meteor and will respect its deterrence capabilities. The whole purpose is to deter.. not to start the war, etc.

 

[aliyusuf]

Having two different set of avionics suite and AESA radars on an otherwise outwardly the same JF-17, may present problems for enemy EW-Jammers and counter measures.

That is why I suggested, a few posts earlier, that we should keep a mix of both technologies. This way, we will keep the enemy guessing about which avionics & weapons technology mix they are up against in an encounter.

 

[Quwa]

I still feel we should keep our abilities classified....giving ur enemy an idea about ur strength will provide him with the techniques to counter ur strength

As @Ali_Baba said, the PAF can do that by equipping the Block 1 and/or Block 2 with the LKF601E (and use new Chinese AAMs and AShMs with them).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I stated a few days ago---.

The Radar on the JF 17 is heading towards the Italian manufacturer---.

 

[Beethoven]

Hi,

I stated a few days ago---.

The Radar on the JF 17 is heading towards the Italian manufacturer---.

Your thoughts sir on the possible acquistion of Meteor and IRIS T by the PAF to equip the Block 3...

 

[denel]

China/Italy/UK won't capitulate to sharing source codes.

If the Grifo-E wins the Block 3 tender, then it means that the PAF has secured a non-Chinese BVRAAM and AShM suite through Leonardo and MBDA. It can also point to the PAF working with a trusted 3rd party like South Africa or Turkey on their respective BVRAAM (Merlin and Marlin, respectively), but that'd be a stretch seeing how the PAF will often go for something that's available today than play around with prototyping et. al.

Basically, the PAF might be dangling the Block-3 to Leonardo as a means to get Leonardo (and the Italian and UK governments) to sell the MBDA Meteor. If you're going to have a world of confidence in the Block-3, then perhaps arming it with a known quantity like the Meteor will force the enemy to respect it.

BTW an embargo wouldn't be a major factor in war. The PAF will stock enough AAMs and AShMs for a wartime response regardless of whether they're from the West or China.

Yes but if we see it from overall prespective putting in Grifo will cause more challenges as you have to go back to the drawing board which seperates blk1/2 from 3. All upgrade paths for each plus weapon systems will be seperated with seperate maintenance streams.
While it will definitely provide diversity, it may be more trouble than worth it.

 

[Tank131]

Again, it will require more than just the munitions, but also the irst, and HMD/S at least. Also possiblly a dfrm.

 

[Chak Bamu]

JF-17 is not Rafale. Having similar missiles would put JF-17 at a disadvantage (RCS, # of missiles, Grifo-E radar range, etc...). Its best to equip it with something that keeps the enemy guessing. If PL-15 is available to PAF, its best to base JF-17 Block III BVR capability on it.

 

[alimobin memon]

I agree, having a block of JF17s with the Grifo-E (or other Lenardo radar) with Meteror, ASRAAM will bring the JF17 platform on par with the Rafale as far as the Air-to-Air role is concerned and will serve as a deterrent.

This is nothing to stop PAF ordering 50x Block III with Chinese avionics/AESA, and another 50x Block III with Western systems, making a final tally of 200 odd JF17s and then moving the focus to Azm project.



I agree !!! Indians will understand the capability of the Meteor and will respect its deterrence capabilities. The whole purpose is to deter.. not to start the war, etc.

Grifo E range is an issue 90km for 5m^2 if im not wrong ?

 

[Tank131]

Grifo E range is an issue 90km for 5m^2 if im not wrong ?

I would highly doubt that. The grifo s had a 92km range. No way PAF would go for a 90km AESA. Especially when the KLJ-7V1 had 105 and v2 has 130km range.

 

[alimobin memon]

I would highly doubt that. The grifo s had a 92km range. No way PAF would go for a 90km AESA. Especially when the KLJ-7V1 had 105 and v2 has 130km range.

brochures are showing that. That's why I am confused.

 

[Tank131]

brochures are showing that. That's why I am confused.

The brochure from Leonardo shows the Track range for a fighter sized aircraft is 40-75 NM (74-139KM). The lookup detection range is 40-85NM (74-158km).
It is a low powered air or liquid cooled GaN bases radar. Doesnt seem to have the range of the KLJ-7A or LKF601E but by only 12km. Furthermore like the LKF601E it can be air cooled and being that it is GaN based, draws less power meaning they can even be offered for older airframes.

Keep in mind, the APG-68(V)9 has a lookup detection range of 105km for a fighter sized aircraft, the RBE2-AA (Rafale) has a detection range of 75NM (139KM) for a fighter sized AC, theAPG-83 has a fighter detection range of 120km, so these ranges are quite good for the size of the radars

 

[denel]

I would highly doubt that. The grifo s had a 92km range. No way PAF would go for a 90km AESA. Especially when the KLJ-7V1 had 105 and v2 has 130km range.

yes correct. the challenge with most chinese metrics - one has to take them with a pinch of salt; they have a bad habit of exagerating.

 

[alimobin memon]

The brochure from Leonardo shows the Track range for a fighter sized aircraft is 40-75 NM (74-139KM). The lookup detection range is 40-85NM (74-158km).
It is a low powered air or liquid cooled GaN bases radar. Doesnt seem to have the range of the KLJ-7A or LKF601E but by only 12km. Furthermore like the LKF601E it can be air cooled and being that it is GaN based, draws less power meaning they can even be offered for older airframes.

Keep in mind, the APG-68(V)9 has a lookup detection range of 105km for a fighter sized aircraft, the RBE2-AA (Rafale) has a detection range of 75NM (139KM) for a fighter sized AC, theAPG-83 has a fighter detection range of 120km, so these ranges are quite good for the size of the radars

Than it means radar wise jf17 can be up to par with rafale. But buying western radar might mean having its info in wrong end italy can sell its weaknesses with india ? I may be wrong

 

[MastanKhan]

yes correct. the challenge with most chinese metrics - one has to take them with a pinch of salt; they have a bad habit of exagerating.

Hi,

A fighter aircraft is as strong as its weakest link---ie the radar---the EW package---the weapons---.