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Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

F16 troll bait :rofl:
Today: PM Imran, Air Chief discuss matters pertaining to PAF.
Right before when PM IK is due to visit US on 22nd July, 2019.
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Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet to Make Maiden Flight by the End of 2019

The Pakistan Air Force plans to operationally deploy the latest variant of the JF-17 fighter jet in 2020.

By Franz-Stefan Gady

July 11, 2019


The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 “Thunder” Block III multirole fighter aircraft will have its first flight before the end of 2019, according to local media reports.

The aircraft is set to operationally deploy with the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) in 2020 and induct all 50 planned JF-17 Block IIIs by 2024, according to the PAF Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan.

The JF-17 Block III has already entered production at the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) final assembly line at PAC Kamra.


“Production of subassemblies has already started for the first two 50 Block 3 aircraft, to be assembled next year, and will be followed by another 12 in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024,” PAC chairman Air Marshall Ahmer Shahzad was quoted as saying by AINonline. We will assemble eight dual-seaters this year, followed by 14 in 2020, and the remaining four in 2021.”

PAC has reportedly been producing 58 percent of the JF-17s airframe and subsystems — the wings, horizontal tail, vertical tail, and forward fuselage — while CAC produces 42 percent of it including the mid- and rear- fuselages. The aircraft parts arrive from China in kit form for local assembly. PAC has an annual production capability of about 25 JF-17 aircraft.

The PAF has currently 85 JF-17 Block I and II operationally deployed, although, according to recent reporting by Flight Global, the PAF has 98 in-service JF-17s. That number that is slated to eventually expand to 112. The first PAF JF-17 squadron, consisting of 14 JF-17 Block I fighter aircraft, was established in 2010. The PAF currently has six operational squadrons.

The JF-17 war principally designed to replace the PAF’s aging fleet of Chengdu F-7 and Dassault Mirage III/5 fighter jets.

JF-17 Block I and II variants are powered by a Chinese license-built Klimov RD-93MA turbogan engine. Block III aircraft are expected to be receive the RD-93MA or Chinese WS-13 engine. As I explainedelsewhere:

F-17 Block III fighters will apparently receive a new electronic warfare system, upgraded avionics including a three-axis fly-by-wire digital flight control system, a helmet-mounted display and sight system, and Pakistan’s first Chinese-made active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system. Two such radar systems are currently under evaluation, according to the PAF Air Chief: the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology’s KLJ-7A radar and the Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute’s (LETRI) LKF601E.

According to reporting by Alan Warnes, Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA radar system is also“still on the table.”

The PAF also plans to field a two-seat trainer variant of the JF-17 aircraft, dubbed JF-17B. Next to the 50 JF-17 Block III aircraft, the service is expected to procure up to 26 of the two-seat version of the fighter jet.

The JF-17 also made its second appearance at this year’s Paris Air Show.


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Can we envision a senario where the Grifo-E would actually win the PAF tender for JF-17? My understanding is that unless italy or china capitulate on allowing the other access to their own equipment to carry out integration, its not going to happen. I dont get (with such a large order) why Leonardo wouldnt allow the PAC to get enough access to allow them to integrate the weapons themselves.

That being said do we know much about the Grifo E, its specs, how it compares to the Chinese AESAs or even RAVEN ES-05?
 
Can we envision a senario where the Grifo-E would actually win the PAF tender for JF-17? My understanding is that unless italy or china capitulate on allowing the other access to their own equipment to carry out integration, its not going to happen. I dont get (with such a large order) why Leonardo wouldnt allow the PAC to get enough access to allow them to integrate the weapons themselves.

That being said do we know much about the Grifo E, its specs, how it compares to the Chinese AESAs or even RAVEN ES-05?

Hi,

Grifo might be the radar of choice for the JF17---.
 
A western variant of the JF17 equipped with the Grifo-E, supporting the Meteor and ASRAAM interlinked with the Erieyes is not out the question.. I hope it comes to pass!!! They will complement the F16s perfectly and totally mess up Indian tactics as countering the JF17 will become difficult as there will be 2 variants.. ie what jamming techniques to use, etc.
 
A western variant of the JF17 equipped with the Grifo-E, supporting the Meteor and ASRAAM interlinked with the Erieyes is not out the question.. I hope it comes to pass!!! They will complement the F16s perfectly and totally mess up Indian tactics as countering the JF17 will become difficult as there will be 2 variants.. ie what jamming techniques to use, etc.
We should have Atleast two sqdn of these types extra punch and let Indians figure it out
 
Western and Turkish equipped JF-17 might be a good alternative to the F-16 Block 70/72 as well. All the latest Western/Turkish sub-systems inside a standard looking JF-17 would definitely add confusion to the Indian war planners. It would also open up the European fighter/bomber munitions arms market to Pakistan, which will help add a bit of qualitative edge when it becomes available. This will also make the JF-17 ready for export to many more foreign customers, because we can show real planes equipped and employing either Chinese or Western or a mix of both systems.

We have to think beyond the mere platform, and think of how best to employ munitions and tactics. Brilliant idea to the OP who suggested it.

We just have to make it clear to the Italians that in order for us to buy the Grifo-E; we need guaranteed access to the latest European weapons, Electronic Warfare equipment/Electronic Support Measures, the latest communications equipment/data links, etc. and in sufficient numbers. We need to tie a deal with the sale of the Meteor, Asraam, IRIS-T, Spear 3, Scalp Missile, Pirate IRST or Skyward IRST if the Chinese equipped Block III will have an IRST, A GaN based DRFM Jammer

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/compact-jamming-system

Towed Decoy
https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/ariel

BriteCloud DRFM Expendable Decoy
https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/britecloud-3

BriteEye Decoy
https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/brite-eye?f=/all-products

E-Scan IFF
https://www.leonardocompany.com/doc...6S_E_Scan_IFF_LQ_mm07523_.pdf?t=1538987653679

Praetorian Defensive Aids Sub-system
https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/praetorian-2?f=/all-products


A Major capability we need to acquire from the Italians suppliers (based on their experience on the Eurofighter) is Avionics to enable true Sensor Fusion; a "5th Generation Capability"; fusing all the data from AWACS over Link 16, Other Fighters, your own Radar, EW Suite, IFF, and putting it all into one track.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Scorpion82/EF technical/EF-Sensorfusion.jpg
http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/images/data-fusion.jpg

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We also need to find a way to integrate Turkish Sub-systems and Munitions with these Italian Sub-systems.

Aselsan Electronics Warfare Suite from the F-16 upgrade if they are better then the Italian or Chinese option
https://www.aselsan.com.tr/SPEWSII_EW_Self_Protection_Suite_2448.pdf

The Turkish BVR and WVR missiles should also be considered, depending on if they can be properly integrated into the European Radar selected. BVR Missile is the Bozgodan and the WVR missile is the Gokdogan.


The SOM Missile should also be considered, as it has already been a planned F-35 munition, and may already be an option for the European Radars.

========
Before committing to the Grifo-E we need to wait till the Turkish F-16 GaN Aesa is ready in 2020/2021, so that we can evaluate it.
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=23044&sid=b9e3107a8fa8ff1511b0f735181fe55f&mode=view

========
We Also need to consider a few European Growler JF-17s; armed with a Raven ES-05/Vixen Radar or Turkish F-16 GaN radar. A small Fleet of 6-8 of these planes with the Latest European/Turkish Jamming Pods, along side 6-8 Chinese equipped JF-17 Growlers could add to the best of all suppliers. This would be another means to add qualitative capabilities.
 
Excellent post FuturePAF, i 1000% agree with you. It is no longer about the platform, but "systems of systems" to have an integrated platform.

This is something that the PAC Aviation City should work on, as integrators before cutting their teeth on something bigger like Azm (imho) as the new platform for a western JF17 can form the foundation of the avionics for Project Azm.

I do think(i like to think!! Optimistic me!!!), that is why Lenoardo has opened up an office in Pakistan.

The only firm requirement has to be is that it is ITAR free !!!!!!!
 
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Pakistani JF-17 Thunders and Turkish ELINT/SIGINT C-160D Transall Among The Highlights Of Anatolian Eagle Exercise
Pakistani JF-17 Thunders and Turkish ELINT/SIGINT C-160D Transall Among The Highlights Of Anatolian Eagle Exercise

July 15, 2019 David Cenciotti



Pakistani Air Force JF-17 landing at the end of a mission (Image credit: Stephan De Bruijn)

Let’s have a look at Anatolian Eagle 2019 at Konya, Turkey.
Exercise Anatolian Eagle, is a very well-known series of exercises hosted by the Turkish Air Force held at the 3rd Main Jet Base – Konya, in central Anatolia, south of Ankara, Turkey.

It is inspired by the U.S. Red Flag and Maple Flag series and its goal is to train fighter pilots for the first few days of a modern conflict (its Greek counterpart is Ex. Iniochos – read here about the 2019 and 2018 edition of the drills held at Andravida AB, Greece).

The exercise provides the participating Turkish and foreign nations air forces an interesting opportunity to perform joint combat training in real-world scenarios that include Combined Air Operations (COMAOs) on tactical and strategic targets defended by Aggressors aircraft and Surface to Air Missile (SAM) threats of all types scattered across an airspace of 120 by 216 NM that allows some +60 aircraft to employ their tactics away from the effects of any (civilian or non AE traffic) around.


Pakistan Air Force JF-17s were among the highlights of AE19 mission. (All images credit: Stephan de Bruijn)
Konya is an important base, the headquarters of the Anatolian Eagle Training Center Command, that plans, organizes and conducts the AE drills and has the important role of testing and validating TuAF’s aircraft and units’ ability and preparedness for combat, establishing a background knowledge to achieve the military aims at war in the shortest time and with minimum effort. In simple words, Konya is where tactics are developed and put to test. Moreover, it hosts the 131 Filo, the squadron that operates the E-7T (B737AEW&C); 132 Filo that flies the F-16C/D Block 50; 135 Filo, equipped with AS532AL, CN235M-100 and UH-1H helicopters and it is the homebase of the Turkish Stars, the TuAF display team.


Turkish Viper with a 48th FW taking off in the background.
Since its establishment in 2001, 41 AE trainings have been performed. Through these years, fourteen countries and 33,000 personnel participated in AE. They brought some 2,000 aircraft to Turkey and generated some 24,000 sorties!

Our friend, journalist and photographer Stephan de Bruijn visited Konya last month, during the 2019 edition of Anatolian Eagle, that ran from Jun. 17 – 28.

“The objectives in AE 2019, were increasing the operational training level of the pilots and air defence personnel in a most realistic operational environment as well as developing joined and combined operational procedures,” he explained us. “The AETC trains the crew on such a way that a decrease of attritions during real combat missions will be realized, likewise there is a focus on an increase of mission effectiveness. Fighter pilots were given a chance to execute their planned tactics to employ in large force compositions. During AE19, 389 sorties were generated that included Close Air Support, Time Sensitive Targeting, Combat Search and Rescue, Ground Assisted Air Interdiction, Point Defense, Hostage Rescue, Casualty Evacuation, Infiltration/exfiltration, Offensive/Defensive Counter Air, Reconnaissance and Suppression of Enemy Air Defense.”


A Turkish F-4E 2020 taxies as a JF-17 takes off for a new AE19 mission.

This special colored F-4E celebrated the 60 years of service of the mighty Phantom.
During the two week exercise, the AETC provides a forum to the participants to exchange ideas and lessons learned.

“AE training will enhance the training level of the participants, by creating a realistic combat theatre within a specific scenario: “blue forces” conduct a combined air operation (COMAO) attack against targets on “red land” that is heavily defended by “red forces” that are equipped with Surface to Air Missile (SAM) systems, electronic warfare threat emitters and fighter aircraft that simulate red-air tactics.”


“Within the AE operations center, all COMAO aircraft, the red forces, involved Airborne Warning And Control Systems (AWACS) as well as ground systems and instructions of Ground Controlled Intercept operators can be visualized on real-time basis in a recognized air picture in the Air Combat Manoeuvring Instrumentation (ACMI) system. After the missions flown, though work for all people involved starts, the debrief in which post-mission assessments can be made in a realistic way. The AETC provides experienced instructors that assist in the debrief.”


An Italian Air Force AMX ACOL (piloted by a U.S. Air Force exchange pilot).
Anatolian Eagle 2019 saw participation of five JF-17 Thunders of 28sq of the Pakistan Air Force, three F-16AM/BM of 2sq of the Royal Jordanian Air Force, three AMX of the 51° Stormo (Wing), 132° Gruppo (Squadron) of the Italian Air Force, six F-15E Strike Eagles of the 494th Fighter Squadron belonging to the 48th Fighter Wing of the United States Air Force in Europe, a C-17A and a C-130J-30 of the 12th Transport Squadron of the Qatar Emiri Air Force and a NATO E-3A of the NATO Airborne Early Warning & Control Force. The host nation Turkey participated with six F-4E-2020 of 111 Filo, some twenty F-16C/D with markings of 113, 151 152, 161, 162, 182 and 193 Filo, an E-7T of 131 Filo, a C-130 of 222 Filo and very rarely seen ELINT/SIGINT C-160D of 221 Filo.


Four F-4Es in formation with the Turkish Stars display team.
Aircraft based at Konya itself but assigned to the exercise were a CN235 and AS532UL of 135 Filo, an E-7T of 131 Filo and some ten F-16C/Ds of 132 Filo. A KC-135A of 101 Filo operated out of homebase Incirlik. The Azerbaijan Air Force sent three military as observers.


A very rarely seen ELINT/SIGINT C-160D of 221 Filo.

A big “Thank you” to Stephan de Bruijn for providing text, images and details about AE19. Make sure you follow him on his Instagram account @stephan_debruijn too.


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